Clarification question - remove problematic Zurn Wilkins 975XL backflow prevention valve

In another thread we discussed a constantly problematic Zurn Wilkins 975XL

1-inch backflow-prevention valve, that doesn't actually do anything (since it's on top of a hill).

I thought I had fixed the leaking valve - but it started leaking again, so, I completely give up on fixing that poor design since I've taken it apart a dozen times and there's nothing I can see that is wrong with it. Yet it leaks.

And, even if I did fix it, it will invariably leak again soon.

I'm not a plumber, so, my only question is clarification of the two spots that were suggested to *remove* the valve (and replace with a pipe).

Would you kindly look at this picture and advise me which location is the removal point? (I'm confused because twisting a pipe in one direction simply tightens it in the other direction.)

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Reply to
Danny D.
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Remove at the yellow. Once off, you can take apart at the red, insert a solid pipe, and then reconnect at the yellow.

Figure out how a "pipe union" works!

I don't suppose you have taken seriously the obvious thing to try: insert a filter on the inlet, to keep out the crap that is likely causing the problem.

You call it a "poor design", but there are millions of these in use with no real problems.

Reply to
Taxed and Spent

This is a pipe union, which is at your yellow locations:

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When you finish your repair, I imagine it will look pretty much like this:

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Reply to
Taxed and Spent

LOL

That reminds me of our home water filtration setup. We have two wells and many valves and I hear submarine commands in my head when switching them over.

Reply to
FromTheRafters

The backflow preventer probably isn't a poor design. But it appears to be installed in a location where one isn't needed and will do absolutely nothing positive. The only possible reason would be if there is some code that someone interpreted to mean that it was required. As D has explained it, this valve is on the output of a tank on top of a hill that feeds water downhill to his house.

And I agree, it comes off via the unions shown by the yellow. He'd probably realize that himself if he just unwound the tape around them.

Reply to
trader_4

Thank you for your patience, as until you said that, I hadn't realized you remove it at the (yellow) pipe unions first, and only then, you remove it at the (red) ball valves.

Since the pipe nipple has to be pre measured, is this the distance you'd use (midpoint between the two shutoff ball valves)?

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My only experience with pipe unions were with the white plastic pool pump pipe unions, which glue onto the incoming pipes, so reverse threading wasn't an issue in those repairs - and exact measuring wasn't necessary because I could always easily trim off excess pipe.

If the valve actually did something, I might take its repair more seriously.

As it is, it's on the top of a hill, so, the chance of water being pushed or siphoned into it has got to be near zero.

To be clear, I have been repairing this valve for years. I'm just sick of it.

It's a poor design.

Given that this 1-inch Zurn Wilkins 975XL backflow preventer requires constant service, the support is pretty good.

Today I called 855-663-9876 and received a call back from a technical support guy named Daniel at 805-238-7100.

He said that I should flush the valve by removing the #1 poppet assembly, and then the #2 poppet assembly, and then to put my hand over the #1 opening and then turn the water supply on. Since my water supply is something like 70psi, that shot water out almost 10 feet. There is no way there is still debris stuck in there - yet - still it leaks.

Daniel told me the classic test is to see if the water leaks in both cases:

  1. When there is no irrigation in use, and,
  2. When the irrigation is in use.

Since my Zurn Wilkins 975XL backflow prevention valve only leaks when there is no irrigation in use, he said to further test by: a. Turning off any sprinklers (if any) b. Turn both check valves on (in my case, this starts it leaking) c. Shut off the #2 check valve - if that stops the leaking - then #2 is fouled. (In my case, this did not stop the leaking.)

Daniel said that if the test above didn't stop the leak, then the problem is most likely the #1 check valve, or sometimes the relief valve, both of which I have taken apart umpteen times already.

He said in that circumstance, I should just replace the entire innards with the three separate repair kits, which I can find on Amazon for $100:

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The required tool for removing the three seats is about $50

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So, for about $150, I can probably fix the dastardly thing. But, what's frustrating is that I can't *see* anything wrong with it. It's *not* fouled.

Note that a brand new Zurn Wilkins 1-975XL is about $250:

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Reply to
Danny D.

It reminded me of my pool pump setup, where I have about 17 valves and three separate pumps and pipes going every which way!

Reply to
Danny D.

Reverse threading, whatever that means, isn't an issue here either. Unions are unions.

- and exact measuring wasn't necessary

You can do exactly the same here, trim the pipe, if you use PVC.

+1
Reply to
trader_4

The ball valves can't be screwed off it seems to me, because if I try to spin them off on the one side, they will spin on for the other side - which means they won't move (unless they're reverse threaded).

At least that's how I "see" it (from my non-plumber perspective).

The main "plumbing" I've done is working on the PVC pipes here:

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Well, this is how I trim pipe at the pool:

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Sometimes I use this instead of a hacksaw:

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But I often have fitting problems when I mess up in measurements:

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So I try to be doubly sure of measurements. :)

Reply to
Danny D.

I don't think so. It rarely gets that cold here. But, it "can" get to freezing. But why did they design these pipes to be out of the ground if it can get to freezing?

That pipe tape isn't going to protect the pipes one bit from freezing.

Good question. I have no idea. When I remove the tape, I'll know.

Is that a "special" tape? It seems like wide printed black electrical tape.

I think I want a simple pipe!

I don't want to do this type of repair ever again!

Reply to
Danny D.

They aren't reverse threaded. That's why the unions are there so you can disassemble it for repair/replacement.

You must be related to the fellow my grandfather referenced:

"I cut it three times now, but it's still too short."

Reply to
trader_4

I think it DOES get to freezing where you are, although I forget if you are at the top of the hill or how far down. There have been some damn hard freezes up there in the not too distant past, and snow on the ground for days. When did you buy your property?

It is an anti-siphon device.

Reply to
Taxed and Spent

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 08:36:39 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote in

LOL!

Reply to
CRNG

There is sometimes a thin layer of ice (about a millimeter thick?) on puddles on the ground in the morning, so, I agree that it *can* get to freezing.

We get snow every five years or so, and, once in a while, it sticks for about a 1/4 inch or so, but only for about a day or at most two.

I'm a few thousand feet up, so the clouds are almost always below me, where I can look in on airplanes coming in for a landing below me at the local airport as they disappear into the valley fog until about noon when the daily fog lifts (and returns again to cover the lights of the valley by midnight).

I've been here about a decade and it has snowed maybe twice or three times as I recall - but it's just a light dusting that almost never sticks.

The issue is that they *knew* what the weather was when they wrapped those pipes in that black tape - so it must be designed to take it as it doesn't really stay cold here for very long (especially not in the past two years).

Reply to
Danny D.

What good is wrapping the upright pipes when the whole valve section is unwrapped? And whatever R value that wrapping has, it doesn't seem like it could do much.

Reply to
trader_4

That black tape is to protect the underground portions of the pipe from corrosion. It won't do anything to prevent freezing.

Reply to
Scott Lurndal

Thanks to your helpful advice & suggestions, the deed is done!

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Reply to
Danny D.

On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 07:27:56 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D." wrote in

Looks good.

Reply to
CRNG

+1

One of those guys with his butt crack showing would be proud and he'd have charged $200+

Reply to
trader_4

Again, I must thank you kind folks because you give me advice in three great ways:

  1. You tell me exactly *where* to start (e.g., at the yellow connections).
  2. You give me ideas for solutions (e.g., the threaded pipe nipple).
  3. That gives me the courage to start the job (I analyze more than most because I'm actually more timid than most of you when initially tackling a repair job).

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Reply to
Danny D.

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