Circuit panel safety question

[Robert Green]

My wife asks: "Is there any protection to be gained by placing a thick rubber mat in front of the circuit panel where someone working on the panel would normally stand?" It would seem it would have to help a little.

I suspect my turning my head upside inside the box and pushing wires aside to read the label information has got her worried again. (-:

Might have something to do with my neighbor who was going to move the dryer for his wife for her birthday and ended up breaking the main gas line. Said the emergency gas tech that responded "it's a miracle you didn't blow yourselves up." Fortunately the wife had the presence of mind to have dialed "9 + 1" as he turned the wrench. It only took a second to dial the last "1" and get emergency services. He had no idea where the shutoffs were located, either. He figured not much gas would leak out by the time he fitted the new flexible pipe. The gas guys don't screw around, either. They immediately shut off the gas at the meter right after they rolled up and saw the panicked homeowners standing outside.

[philoÂÂ]

It certainly would not hurt anything to place a rubber mat there but it's not likely to make anything safer.

[Stormin Mormon]

Possibly, might help. Since it's possible to shock oneself from a hot wire through the body, to ground under your feet. Not wicked expensive, and might help.

Dry wood such as plywood can also help.

[Stormin Mormon]

When I did heating and AC, I learned to use two wrenches, so as to concentrate the torque in a small area. Also good to know where is the gas shut off, for moments like this. Glad the gas guys arrived in time. Most fire department guys know how to shut off natural gas.

[Stormin Mormon]

Less likely to have a current path to ground through your legs and feetsies.

[trader4]

There should have been a shut-off valve right before the flex pipe at the dryer.

Rubber mat at the panel can't hurt. How much good it does depends on how good of an insulator it actually is, what material it's really made of, etc.

[Pete C.]

Most shoes are pretty good insulators at 120V which is the most you would get to ground (in the US) anyway. Since the panel enclosure is grounded and there are terminals of both phases (polarity technically) in the panel, you have a much better chance of getting across 120V or even 240V in the panel itself. This is of course where the old "one hand" idea came from, but as we all know in today's overstuffed panels that's simply not viable.

The two most important safety things you can do are to make sure you have good footing i.e. you aren't climbing on junk to get to the panel, and that you have good lighting so you can clearly see inside the panel to avoid contact with exposed terminals and bus bars.

[trader4]

I like those panels that they use in Canada that you see on the Holmes TV shows. They use a separate cover for the area at and above the main breaker. Without removing that, nothing below it that you could come in contact with is energized with the main open. Even with a regular panel, with the main off, it's pretty hard to contact the incoming service wires as you're usually not doing anything near that and if you are, well you just need to know what you;re doing and be careful. Personally, I'm most worried when I'm taking off the panel cover on one where you haven't been before. You don't know what someone may have done inside there, so I'm always careful to take the panel straight off, not let it tip back inside. My worst fear is the panel comes off, a corner dips back inside, touches something, and there you are, with the steel panel in both hands, standing on a concrete floor.

[RobertMacy]

Most damage is done arm to arm, across the heart. Some from top to bottom, but not quite as much.

Rubber mat is ok, but double layers of rubber gloves are better. Since you're putting finger in there.

Why double layer? Talk to the ex-utilities employees that are on disability for 'hurrying' a repair and NOT checking for pinhole leaks in their gloves and then working on HOT hi-tension wires where the discharge almost killed them.

Turn it OFF first.

Plus don't assume anything is off. use one of those cheap neon indicators. You hold one end, or ground it, and probe around first.

[BenignBodger]

Certainly it could help in some circumstances although I doubt that any home electrical panel would need such safeguards (assuming that anybody tinkering with the panel isn't a total arse). But if you must then you might as well buy the real thing and not take chances that your choice won't do the job:

[Robert Green]

Ah yes, been there, done that with mixing 100 gallon vats of color film developing chemicals. Now I am a great fan of nitrile surgical gloves under the gauntlet style rubber outer glove for noxious chemical work. But as arthritic as my hands have become, I can't imagine being able to do any sort of fine mechanical work "gloved up" like that. I've been looking at OSHA rules and regs to see if they have a standard for rubber insulating devices and they have nothing BUT standards:

Insulating equipment with any of the following defects may not be used:

1910.137(b)(2)(iii)(A) A hole, tear, puncture, or cut;

To which I say "duh, really?"

Agreed. That's another interesting point. The A/C installers didn't kill the main breaker when they installed a new 240VAC breaker for the outside compressor. I was concerned about doing controlled shutdowns on my PCs but they said it wasn't an issue. Obviously it's possible to install new breakers without using the main 100A breaker or the service disconnect.

Got a very nice one with an adjustable sensitivity setting thanks to Gfretwell's recommendation. Stuck some neo mags on it and now it lives attached to the cover door of the panel. I figured if I made the circuit box its home base I would never be tempted to proceed without it. Tossed my Radio Shack Mircronta neon voltage tester because it was a piece of junk.

Thanks for your input, Robert.

[Robert Green]

At least it would make for more comfortable standing when working on the panel. The issue seems to be the choice of mats - some types of material are better insulators than others. The search continues.

[hrhofmann]

No one has asked what the added mat would be covering. In my house, it wou ld be on top of carpeting with an underpad above a wood floor. Adddint the rubber mat would not have any effect unless I was working on voltages of s everal thousand volts. Double rubber gloves is good, long-sleeved shirts t o cover the arms up to the gloves also important.

[Stormin Mormon]

You know, that was negligent of us. Me, especially. Thanks for point that out.

[Stormin Mormon]

I put a carpet sample on the cement floor in front of a circuit panel box, one time. Much more comfortable feetsies while checking breakers.

[Stormin Mormon]

Most panels, it's no big deal to add a breaker with the mains on. And yes, having a voltage indicator or neon is great idea. I have some thing like that in my tools. I often double check with VOM to ground.

[Robert Green]

I w> The two most important safety things you can do are to make sure you

Amen. I even have two clamp lamps pulling from different circuits aimed at the panel to increase the chances that they'll always be sufficient light. And two LED flashlights with magnets. And a lighted magnifying glass (it's been hell trying to read the label!). And even a little set of shelves next to the box that hold tools, meters, spare breakers, etc. Fortunately my panel is just at eye level and fairly easy to access.

[Robert Green]

As I recall, he was installing flex pipe for the first time, and very long run of it. This is a person who refuses to look at the internet before starting such a project condemning it all as "worthless." I couldn't conceive of doing something like that without a *lot* of research on the net. It would also come under the heading of the gas lines in that house being dangerous enough and old enough to require someone experienced and competent doing the job. I have no idea, really, why he thought he was competent to do gasfitting work. Obviously he was not.

This person is mostly a "swapper" or "plugger" and tends to diagnose things by replacing things he believes are at fault. Replaced a perfectly good ignitor when the problem was a vent sensor. Was about to pull the dashboard on his wife's car because the fan would not stop running, even after the ignition was turned off.

I had to step him through the idea that the fan only gets power when the ignition/acc circuits are energized and that the dashboard switch was an unlikely culprit. More likely was some ignition relay or electronic control module that succumbed to the cold and starting sticking.

IOW, a decent technical ability but not good diagnostic skills. One thing I like about Usenet is that it's very easy to evaluate the problem-solving ability of most posters by the solutions they recommend. Some people don't bother to read the question thoroughly (although to be fair, many enter a thread well after the "setup" has been described) and others don't consider the circumstances of the OP. As you've noted many times, people often post woefully incomplete descriptions of their problems. That doesn't stop some people from offering specific solutions. (-:.

That may be difficult to determine unless I get one of the $160 mats suggested elsewhere that will protect me to 17,000 volts. I'm thinking anything is better than nothing and in any event, it will make standing there more comfortable. 17,000 volts seems a little bit of overkill for the panel.

[RobertMacy]

..,,,snip....

You were indeed lucky.

When young i 'inherited' many electrical tools from my father, such as wire strippers and pliers. The reason he gave them to me was that they were damaged by discharges. So, I had to file off some section of 'welded' metal blobs to make them work. Still have a few of them. He got them from people on his job site who either didn't check, or didn't put a red flag and tape on the breakers, or in one case 'just turned on for a second' ?! because someone needed electricity for just that simple little time. That someone got fired. And, everyone breathed a sigh of relief.

[Stormin Mormon]

I had a helper one time. I was reaching into a roof HVAC unit to check for motor belt tension. I heard a voice behind me say "Hey, I'm going to turn it on to see how it works". As you can expect, I backed away from the equipment, rapidly.

Foolishly, I did let him work with me, cleaning carpets on another job He sprinkled water on the shampooer (ancient equipment, two wire plug). Told him not to, he did a second time. I fired him again.