Circuit panel safety question

Page 2 of 2  
On 3/2/2014 11:03 PM, Robert Green wrote:

When I did heating and AC, I learned to use two wrenches, so as to concentrate the torque in a small area. Also good to know where is the gas shut off, for moments like this. Glad the gas guys arrived in time. Most fire department guys know how to shut off natural gas.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Monday, March 3, 2014 7:37:04 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

There should have been a shut-off valve right before the flex pipe at the dryer.
Rubber mat at the panel can't hurt. How much good it does depends on how good of an insulator it actually is, what material it's really made of, etc.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
<stuff snipped>

As I recall, he was installing flex pipe for the first time, and very long run of it. This is a person who refuses to look at the internet before starting such a project condemning it all as "worthless." I couldn't conceive of doing something like that without a *lot* of research on the net. It would also come under the heading of the gas lines in that house being dangerous enough and old enough to require someone experienced and competent doing the job. I have no idea, really, why he thought he was competent to do gasfitting work. Obviously he was not.
This person is mostly a "swapper" or "plugger" and tends to diagnose things by replacing things he believes are at fault. Replaced a perfectly good ignitor when the problem was a vent sensor. Was about to pull the dashboard on his wife's car because the fan would not stop running, even after the ignition was turned off.
I had to step him through the idea that the fan only gets power when the ignition/acc circuits are energized and that the dashboard switch was an unlikely culprit. More likely was some ignition relay or electronic control module that succumbed to the cold and starting sticking.
IOW, a decent technical ability but not good diagnostic skills. One thing I like about Usenet is that it's very easy to evaluate the problem-solving ability of most posters by the solutions they recommend. Some people don't bother to read the question thoroughly (although to be fair, many enter a thread well after the "setup" has been described) and others don't consider the circumstances of the OP. As you've noted many times, people often post woefully incomplete descriptions of their problems. That doesn't stop some people from offering specific solutions. (-:.

That may be difficult to determine unless I get one of the $160 mats suggested elsewhere that will protect me to 17,000 volts. I'm thinking anything is better than nothing and in any event, it will make standing there more comfortable. 17,000 volts seems a little bit of overkill for the panel.
--
Bobby G.



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 9:22:36 AM UTC-5, Robert Green wrote:

I work with some engineers like that. They're pretty good at design, they'll single mindedly focus until they solve the problem, however difficult.
And they think they're good at diagnosis, but they're a disaster. They fixate on the first idea, and then that same single minded focus prevents them from considering any other root cause, regardless of how much evidence says they're wrong.
The key to good troubleshooting is to resist finding the cause as long as possible. As soon as you know what's wrong, you are incapable of seeing the other symptoms that prove it couldn't be that.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It's amazing how many fields require that sort of focus, from criminal investigation to archeology. I was reading about the mini-ice age that occurred 13,000 years ago. Some people think it was caused by the eruption of a huge volcano:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laacher_See
while others believe it was caused by a large meteorite or comet striking the North American ice sheet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas_impact_hypothesis
There's considerable evidence to support both theories and I think that eventually the cause will be determined when enough evidence is collected. Even though a collision with a meteorite/comet probably melted and left no crater, like a gunshot wound, there are lots of particles left behind that can tell the story (in this case, it hinges on micro-diamonds and "fullerenes" - which only form under unusual conditions. Ironically, it's a little like a criminal investigation - the pieces fill in slowly but eventually.
<And they think they're good at diagnosis, but they're a disaster. They fixate on the first idea, and then that same single minded focus prevents them from considering any other root cause, regardless of how much evidence says they're wrong.>
That's very similiar to how criminal investigators get a "suspect lock" and doctors get a "diagnosis lock" and as you say, they stop looking for other possible explanations. They fixate on bolstering the suspect/disease they've "locked onto" and tend to exclude all other evidence.
<The key to good troubleshooting is to resist finding the cause as long as possible. As soon as you know what's wrong, you are incapable of seeing the other symptoms that prove it couldn't be that.>
Absolutely. It's a very common problem in troubleshooting and it's zapped me more that a few times in trying to diagnose computer problems.
--
Bobby G.



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 21:03:30 -0700, Robert Green

Most damage is done arm to arm, across the heart. Some from top to bottom, but not quite as much.
Rubber mat is ok, but double layers of rubber gloves are better. Since you're putting finger in there.
Why double layer? Talk to the ex-utilities employees that are on disability for 'hurrying' a repair and NOT checking for pinhole leaks in their gloves and then working on HOT hi-tension wires where the discharge almost killed them.
Turn it OFF first.
Plus don't assume anything is off. use one of those cheap neon indicators. You hold one end, or ground it, and probe around first.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Ah yes, been there, done that with mixing 100 gallon vats of color film developing chemicals. Now I am a great fan of nitrile surgical gloves under the gauntlet style rubber outer glove for noxious chemical work. But as arthritic as my hands have become, I can't imagine being able to do any sort of fine mechanical work "gloved up" like that. I've been looking at OSHA rules and regs to see if they have a standard for rubber insulating devices and they have nothing BUT standards:
Insulating equipment with any of the following defects may not be used: 1910.137(b)(2)(iii)(A) A hole, tear, puncture, or cut;
To which I say "duh, really?"

Agreed. That's another interesting point. The A/C installers didn't kill the main breaker when they installed a new 240VAC breaker for the outside compressor. I was concerned about doing controlled shutdowns on my PCs but they said it wasn't an issue. Obviously it's possible to install new breakers without using the main 100A breaker or the service disconnect.

Got a very nice one with an adjustable sensitivity setting thanks to Gfretwell's recommendation. Stuck some neo mags on it and now it lives attached to the cover door of the panel. I figured if I made the circuit box its home base I would never be tempted to proceed without it. Tossed my Radio Shack Mircronta neon voltage tester because it was a piece of junk.
Thanks for your input, Robert.
--
Bobby G.



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 3/3/2014 5:14 PM, Robert Green wrote:

Most panels, it's no big deal to add a breaker with the mains on. And yes, having a voltage indicator or neon is great idea. I have some thing like that in my tools. I often double check with VOM to ground.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 3/2/2014 11:03 PM, Robert Green wrote:

Certainly it could help in some circumstances although I doubt that any home electrical panel would need such safeguards (assuming that anybody tinkering with the panel isn't a total arse). But if you must then you might as well buy the real thing and not take chances that your choice won't do the job: http://www.highvoltagesupplies.com/store/product/class-2-solid-rubber-blanket-1086.cfm
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

<stuff snipped>

Protects to 17,000 volts for close to $200. I am not sure which is the more disqualifying of the two. I only need 240V protection and I'd rather not have to spend $200 for a rubber mat if a much less expensive one would provide at least *some* greater protection than a concrete floor with a French drain running right underneath that area.
--
Bobby G.



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
No one has asked what the added mat would be covering. In my house, it wou ld be on top of carpeting with an underpad above a wood floor. Adddint the rubber mat would not have any effect unless I was working on voltages of s everal thousand volts. Double rubber gloves is good, long-sleeved shirts t o cover the arms up to the gloves also important.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 3/3/2014 6:15 PM, snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net wrote:

especially. Thanks for point that out.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
<No one has asked what the added mat would be covering. In my house, it would be on top of carpeting with an underpad above a wood floor. Adddint the rubber mat would not have any effect unless I was working on voltages of several thousand volts. Double rubber gloves is good, long-sleeved shirts to cover the arms up to the gloves also important.>
Good question - sorry for the important omission. It's covering a concrete floor that has a French drain running all along the perimeter of the basement wall.
The problem with double rubber gloves is the loss of dexterity. Even single rubber gloves make life difficult when working inside close spaces.
--
Bobby G.



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 23:03:30 -0500, "Robert Green"

Seriously? Did her husband know or learn later how little faith she had in him?
The closest story I have to this is from college, one of our fraternity members was always elected House Manager. Sometimes they knew nothing about repairs and just called a repairman, but many years they knew more than that, and my roommate was house manager and I was very impressed by him. I'd never known anyone before who knew what he was doing.
So one night first-year students were invited over for rush, and Don hated rush events (and meetings etc.) and because it was old and rusting, he had removed the metal shower on the third floor so that only the galvanized pipes were standing there, and a bunch of us are talking and the pipes are rocking back and forth, only an inch or two, but I'm thinking Maybe that's bad, But Don knows much more about these things than I do. And less thana minute later one pipe breaks and water is going everywhere, and Don goes to the basement and turns off the water, and gets to spend the whole evening repairing the pipe and doesn't have to talk to the first-year students at all!!!
I don't know if this was partly intentional or not. Hard to believe it would be but Don was a complicated guy. From a tiny town, St. Peter Minnesota, population 8500 then (11,500 now) , maybe grew up on a farm, enrolled in (and graduated from) U. of Chicago, built his own record player amplifier, mounted speaker in the closet put a hole in the wall for the sound to come out (Infinite baffle, he said it was) to listen to classical music. Built a jammer so the guy across the hall couldn't listen to his rock music. Rich'd change stations so Don would change frequencies on the jammer. Rich never found out what was going on. Enlisted in the army after college, 1967, Viet Nam, became a drill instructor. Before or after that, he parachuted in behind enemy lines to do special ops. Came back alive in one piece, I'm told, but I haven't talked to him since the end of his fourth year.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
<stuff snipped>

Yes. He was far more concerned that she told ME about it, though. This is a guy who suggested that I mount a 12VDC gel cell to the bottom of my DeWalt drill using SCREWS through the black plastic battery case!!!!! And DEFENDED that strategy quite vociferously. I asked him to produce one site where anyone had mounted any sort of AGM battery by screwing into the battery case. Ot Nay Oo Tay Right Bay. The kicker? He's a Mensan. Solving brain teasers does NOT equate to having common sense.

Some people are like that - my Mom's brother built his own house by hand whereas my other uncle couldn't hammer a nail into a 2 by 4.
--
Bobby G.



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.