HOW ABOUT CALL ELECTRICIAN???
"E. Robinson" wrote in message
How do I debug when a circuit breaker keeps tripping?
1. It has never tripped before (years).
2. Yesterday, it was tripped.
3. I flip it back on, and it trips immediately.
4. It controls a bunch of outlets and lights and that's about it.
I turn off the lights it controls.
I unplug all the outlets.
It still trips.
How do you debug these things?
On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 03:05:48 -0000 (UTC), "E. Robinson"
Because some of us know what we're doing. I'm always willing to assist
others on this NG, but electricity can KILL. I read between the lines,
and I can "read" their skill level, and I am not going to assist someone
with killing themselves. This OP is clueless about basic electricity and
should not be touching any wiring, PERIOD!
I agree, CALL AN ELECTRICIAN !
If he was trying to replace a door, but showed the same lack of basic
carpentry skills, I'd still be willing to assist, because doors dont
kill people if they make a slight mistake.
On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 21:42:40 -0600, Paintedcow wrote:
Heh heh ... I'm a (retired) EE.
So that's funny.
BTW, if you know anything about electrical engineers, they
typically don't learn anything practical (in school) about
It's all about poles and zeros and Kirchoff's law and
fourier transforms and delta/Y transformers and Spice
simulations and diffusion doping and Maxwell's equations
and Coulomb's law and Faraday's Law and Ohm's law,
and c=dv/dt and phase diagrams and polar plots,
and cascade versus cascode configurations and
emitters and gates, etc.
Nothing whatsoever about typical mains wiring.
Perhaps, but then paintedcow knows a great deal about nothing and even
when someone attempts to cure his ignorance, he doubles down and says
something even more stupid.
Do let us know the final outcome on this. With the additional details
you've provided, it seems almost certain to be a circuit breaker that's
simply given up the ghost. That said, I think there's usually a reason
other than "its time has come"<g> for breakers to give up. Wondering if
you've normally got enough of a load on that 15A circuit to heat it up
and that that may have caused the failure.
On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 05:27:30 -0800, bob_villain wrote:
Thank you for understanding.
To know the electrical equations that are involved in making
a motor spin doesn't mean I know jack shit in practical
terms about fixing electrical motors.
Since *all* the wiring was hidden, and since there was obviously
a dead short *somewhere*, I was asking for hints on how to find
Sure, Ohms law is telling me that the current shoots up when
the short causes near-zero impedance, but, heck, that doesn't
tell me practically how to test for the short.
BTW, the trick of shutting off the mains and then testing the
circuit seems to be a great time saver for testing the breaker
They do *not* teach you that stuff in college.
On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 12:36:10 -0800, trader_4 wrote:
I'm not sure which tack you're taking on the topic of what an EE knows
about typical home wiring, but, I'll just reiterate that *this* is the
kind of stuff we learn in Electrical Engineering!
Pic 1: the books
Pic 2: the circuits
Pic 3: the formulas
On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 4:11:59 PM UTC-5, E. Robinson wrote:
I'm an electrical engineer myself. I also knew how to debug that
breaker by just moving a wire from an adjacent breaker when I was
10 years old. I was building all kinds of hobby projects that
were more complicated than that. Electric eyes for example,
using photocells and transistors. Really, what
is education coming to in America when you can get a degree in
electrical engineering and not be able to debug a simple house
circuit. Sorry, just the truth, painful as it may be.
On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 4:22:12 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
Thanks for proving our point.
You knew how to debug a breaker way before you had your EE. You
learned it through some other means or from other source. It
had nothing to do with your degree.
I'm guessing we're close to same age - within reason - which means
we got our EE degrees in the same "America" time wise - within reason.
What course taught you how to open a breaker panel and swap wires?
On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 13:31:17 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
I got all my degrees from "the school of hard knocks" Different
degrees of knowlege in different subjects
If you are going to learn one trade well that will teach you the
basics of most of the others, learn auto mechanics.
Hydraulics, electrical/electronics, machinist, plumbing - you get the
basics of all of them - and you learn how to take out screws and
remove covers too.
I can understand that. Just because one knows the theory about things does
not mean he will have trouble shooting abilities even on something simple.
I doubt the EE degree even mentions home wireing or simple breakers for the
house. I went to a 2 year technical college for electronics engineering and
did not get into the simple things. Lots of time on theory and none on how
to repair things that did not work.
I went to work in a large plant and delt with things as large as 480 volt 3
phaase at 500 amps. Almost nothing in the plant ran on 120 volts except in
some offices, so did not get much about the simple things you would find
around the house.
On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 10:23:52 -0500, Ralph Mowery wrote:
I'm sure every school is different, but you are correct.
Not once do they mention the wiring of the home.
So, if you didn't already know that it's 110VAC 60Hz, you're not gonna
learn that at school with an EE degree.
Neither do they really cover power transmission.
The sort of hint at it when they cover transformers and when they cover
the skin effect and AC impedance, but, not once in the entire college
education of a typical EE does he see a circuit breaker.
Yup. I mean, they cover transformers, in all their configurations, and
phase shift, and they cover single phase, two phase, three phase power, etc.,
but not once do they show you a typical power transformer that is on your
telephone pole, although they do theoretically cover load balancing.
That's another thing they NEVER cover in electrical engineering!
They never tell you that it's roughly 400 volts on the distribution lines
and tens of thousands of volts on the transmission lines and they never
cover how the ground differs from the neutral in a typical home system.
In fact, as I said, not once in 4 years did they cover anything related
to a typical home system. Of course, as someone noted, Ohms law still
holds sway, but that simply tells me I have a short.
But FINDING the short was where I needed your help.
On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 20:11:32 -0000 (UTC), "E. Robinson"
I don't know about that. My brother-in-law majored in electrical
engineering and he had a minor in home wiring. (He's been in Asia on
vacation or I would have called him for advice on your problem.) At
MIT, no less.
The Morristown Institute of Technology is one of the 10 best technical
institutes in northwestern New Jersey.
My sister called to say they just got back and I learned that he did
his thesis on circuit breakers.
You can major in power transmission, power generation, microwave
transmission, communications, and several hundred other "specialties.
The beauty of specialization is you learn more and more about less and
less untill eventually you know absolutely all there is to know about
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