Our gas utility is giving rebates for buying a greater than 92% efficient furnace. There's also a tax credit available. These greatly reduce the premium for buying such a unit and then of course there is the savings in gas.
On the other hand, are these machines more prone to problems and need of repairs than a simpler furnace? That could wipe everything out. Plus it might be beyond my abilities to repair. The old furnace (see other thread) I could do most maintenance. I was even able to solve a problem that stumped a pro many years ago. (Not his fault...it just didn't act up when he came.)
I know the pros of the super efficient furnaces. What are the cons? The ones being considered are Carrier Performance Series. What are HVAC techs putting in their own homes?
Before worrying about a more efficient furnace have you done everything els e to make your home more efficient? Do you have double windows, and a thick , even insulation in your attic and crawl space under the house? Did you ch eck all your ducting to make sure there aren?t any leaks and that it is w ell insulated? Are all your outside walls insulated? If you do all of these you probably won?t even need a more efficient furnace, and you won?t n eed an expert to insulate.
Hi, I have performance series 96%, 100K BTU one going into 3rd year of service. Installed by pro installer who knows what he is doing. So far not a single problem. My ac unit is also matching performance series 3 ton unit little older than furnace, No problem either. So far all I did was cleaning the condenser unit at the beginning of season. This week we're experiencing -35C with lots of snow and cold wind.
Excellent points but I'm pretty sure the existing furnace has a cracked heat exchanger and replacement is mandatory immediately. (See seperate thread about that.)
But since you asked, no the house is terribly inefficient. Built in 1957 with metal window frames, no insulation in the walls, concrete slab floor. It does seem laughable to have a super efficient furnace in combination with those things and if one were choosing what to put money into, it would be these other things first.
On the other hand, all of those things mean more heat is required and a super efficent furnace is going to make more heat with less money. If rebate and tax credit pay for most of the difference then maybe this is the way to go.
Because of the rebates and tax credits, it sounds like a wash or better for initial cost. Let's say he does have the $560 in repairs in nine years. Have you saved less than that in fuel cost?
Apples and oranges, but my oil savings with a more efficient boiler are in the $800 a year range so in 9 years after repairs I'd be $6600 ahead. Rather than take your blanket statement, the OP should run the numbers and factor in some repair cost.
The techs I talk to, say that the early versions of high efficiency had problems, but now days they are much more dependable. Mine is a York, down flow in my trailer. It's about 90% efficiency, didn't say on the box. The only trouble I've had was that the draft inducer fan went bad, it some how wore through the outer shell, and I had to replace it. Took me a couple hours to track down another fan, and put it in.
With today's political climate, very often the choice of anything is based on what is subsidized, rebated, or politically correct. As you've got a cracked exchanger, I'd go in the direction of whatever is subsidized.
If you're figuring to do insullation and such, please consider going down a size of furnace. Me, took out 80K unit, and put in a 70K. And also some cellulose in the ceiling. That is keeping me comfortable.
I'd look at pricing of Rheem/Ruud vs the brands that are perceived as being better. I had a Ruud that I replaced a few years ago that was
25 years old and still running. I don't know the whole history, but it was 10 years old when I bought the house and except for putting a hard-start kit on the AC, I didn't have any repair bills for my 15 years. I replaced it with a Rheem, they are made by the same company. When I looked at reviews a few years ago, according to Consumer Reports, the repair/problem history of all the brands was about the same. In fact, I recall Rheem was actually a little better than some of the brands that spend a lot of $$$ on advertising. I'd rather have a Ruud installed by the best installer, instead of a higher price system installed by a crappy installer.
I'm curious what tax credits still exist? Back in 2010, you could get a 30% fed tax credit up to $1500, but I thought that was all gone now. State?
How much you save each year in operating costs is unknown, because only you know where you live and how much gas you use. GA and MN are going to be very different. In a cold climate 80% vs 93% for 20 years is going to add up and the cost of the eqpt difference isn't that great. Install of a new one however is typically going to cost more. Also, what else is on the chimney for the existing furnace? If there is a water heater sharing the same chimney, you'll likely need to install a chimney liner for that. It's not a big deal, but does add to the cost. The other option is to go with a new direct vent water heater, if the WH is near it's EOL too.
There is truth that high efficiency units are more complex, so there are more things that can go wrong. On the other hand, I now have a cumulative 13 years of experience with 3 of them and haven't had a problem yet. And if you have reasonable diagnostic skills, no reason you can't fix them yourself. They do have wiring diagrams and if you understand the theory of how they work, etc, they are certainly a lot easier to diagnose and fix than many systems on a modern car.
I would also recommend putting in a whole house surge protector if you don't already have one. Unlike an old furnace, these have electronics, including in many cases an ECM motor.
my mom and step dad had a high efficency furnace that outlived both of them , over 15 years just one preventive maintence check right before i sold the home. i know the new owners son, who reports the furnace and air were stil l running well as of last august. his parents bought the home 5 years ago s o that makes the furnace over 20 years old
i believe goodman offers a 10 year warranty on their equiptement
Hi, Our urnace has 10 yr P&L warranty. After that I fix it myself if something goes wrong. Easy to get parts for Carrier furnace. I chose X13 blower motor with speed selection taps, not the VS type which has frequent controller problems.
I've seen too many high eff furnaces fail eithin 5 years. My brother's had a circuit board replaced at $400+ a shot 3 times? bedore the furnace contractor offered him a real deal on a different manufacturer's replacement - and after it was replaced he found there was an $80 generic replacement board that would have fixed it - and didn't suffer from premature death syndrome
Why, we're neighborly, y'know? We talk, we even visit each other. Hell, we even take turns mowing each other's lawns and blowing out each other's driveways. Every autumn I'm the most popular person in the neighborhood. I make the rounds on my tractor and people wave me over to their yard to make their leaves disappear. Folks love not having to rake.
I had an inexpensive no-frills (I have a small house) high-efficiency furnace installed nine years ago. So far, no problems.
Also the cost difference for the furnace itself is just a few hundred bucks. The installation will likely add to that, because you're typically going from a chimney situation, which is drop-in to a direct vent. How hard or easy that is depends on the house specifics.
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