Choosing a furnace

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wrote:

C'mon Noon, You gotta follow along. Dont you remember? Todd is that wonderful EE we all know and love. Oh yeah, he is also a self proclaimed computer expert. :-) I think he also does brain surgery with that EE degree and solves world problems in his spare time. Bubba
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writes:

Oh yeah.... I remember now, thats the guy that isn't actually even qualified on anything sharper than a crayon or anything with moving parts.
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wrote:

Probably has a cape and leotards too.
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Bubba boy, I've forgotten more about computers than I think you'll ever know about anything. That may sound like bragging, but put it in the perspective that based on your posting history, you simply aren't all that bright and the bar isn't that high.

If dissecting your cute little brain and alerting your 2 knuckle dragging friends in alt.hvac (where you think you are special) to what a douchebag you are qualifies as a brain surgery and solving world problems, well, then yes.
Bubby I'm curious of your education level. Are you one of the subset of folks without a degree who feels like he's gotta overcompensate by flinging poo at anyone who earned one? Or were you abused by someone with an engineering degree as a child? Or is this really all about your small penis and that your mother never breastfed you because she "only liked you as a friend?"
To be clear, there are some outright idiots running around with degrees who should go back to their alma maters and demand their money back for how little common sense they have. There are also folks with engineering degrees who think the sun rises and sets in their ass and they won't listen to the sharp technicians who can help them design better.
I also feel there are scores of folks without college degrees that are highly intelligent extremely productive and vital members of the workforce. But, Bubbster, all evidence seems to indicate that you ain't one of em.
Best Regards, -- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net /
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Todd H. wrote:

Todd, I also am an EE, and while I haven't spent very much time in this group, I'll give you my take on what's happening here. Engineers are overly analytical, and technicians sometimes take this as meaning we believe we know everything. Also, since this is an HVAC group, I'll venture to say it's full of blue-collar technicians.
I'll close with one of my favorite proverbs: The more you know, the more you find you DON'T know. So ignorant people think they know everything.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com writes:

Agreed.

Absolutely.
And the most irritating folks are those who don't know everything, yet who can't admit it.
And that's why I like picking on Bubba and Pauly. They both seem to have a history of being less than helpful on questions they pretend they know everything about...but don't. Imagine if they did! The signal to noise ratio in alt.hvac would be a bit higher. :-)
Best Regards, -- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net /
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NOTE: Todd is turning on the "Condescending, Suck-Ass, "I want you to like me" mode now.

TODD TURNS OFF THE "Condescending, Suck-Ass, "I want you to like me" mode now.

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Oscar_Lives wrote:

He makes perfect sense. What part didn't you get?? He gave credit where credit is due. In other words, there are dumb people and there are smart people of all types.
Which type are you?
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There are also very smart engineers who really know their shit, and there are technicians who can't find their ass with both hands and a flashlight.
So fucking what?
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On 27 Sep 2006 09:14:55 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote:

Me thinks someone forgot that I told them to, "Have a nice life". Looks like you're not having it yet. Bubba
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Oh, don't worry Bubba, I am! But thank you for your concern.
This relaxes me. :-)
-- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net /
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We have a older version of the Bryant 90 plus installed in 89' over the years its been a decent furnace, there were several problems with it mostly due to it being an early model of the super high efficiency furnaces. We have replaced the heat exchange box from it corroding from moisture buildup and bad drainage design, new model of box isn't supposed to do that. normal wear and tear has seen the blower motor replaced after 6 years, the inducer motor replaced after about 8 years, the venturies clogged up and replaced after about 12 years, after the last service call in 2002 for the venturies we started getting the repair company out for regular yearly service call in the fall to clean and check the furnace, year before last we signed a prearranged deal where they come out twice a year to check before each season fall and spring for heat and a/c and overall checkup of the system. We have a 591a model with air conditioner added at time of install. Couple things you may want to consider is the guy that normally comes out and works on our unit says that most furnaces are built by only a couple of companies, forgot who he said bryant was made by but was supposed to be reputable brand name you pay for the name when you go with courier, lennox, sears whatever. At the time of our purchase they were just coming out with the ultra efficient like 90% or higher think ours is like 85% efficient, but the super efficient ones had nothing but problems. oh some things to consider depending on type of house maybe adding a attic powered fan, we did reduced a/c usage somewhat in summer or a whole house fan, have heard nice things about those as well. If you do not get a/c with your unit you can later add on a heat pump / a/c unit, splitting your heating source to gas / electric, also heard good things about that set up depending on electical costs in your area. heat pumps work to about 40 degrees i think.
Good luck on your choice.
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NATE and NADCA shows you the company stays on top of continuing education. Rheem is better than Bryant long term. However for each particular model the consumer reports suggestion was a good one.
Please understand this is a critical choice becuase you will have to live with the heating system for a long time and it will either be heaven or hell. The real trick is the evaluation of your needs based on the square footage of your home and just how well its insulated. This gives the contracor a formula to follow in order to make what they call a heat load calculation. This essentially estimates the most heat you will need during the coldest day of the heating season.
The goal is not to go to big with a unit since that will reduce the actual efficiencies of the unit and you will be using more fuel with the constant starts and stops. The goal is to have the unit on the coldest day run for 45 minutes. This is like higheway mileage vs city stop and go.
So bigger is not better. Its critical to get the right guy doing the evaluation and the install. In order to check the BBB was a good choice as is your state department of consumer protection.
Here's the inside scoop. You need to ask how long the techs have been working for the company and the length of time they have been in the business. This tells you 2 things. 1.) If the techs have been with the company a long time it shows the company is strong and is run well. If they have not it means constant turnover due to dissention in the ranks. A minimum of 5 years. 2.) An experianced tech is better then a newly minted one.
Check to see how they maintain their vehicals inside and out. If it's messy on the inside beware,
Visit their office. If the inside of the office is in chaos RUN.
Essentially what I'm suggeting is see how they run and maintain their business because thats what they will be doing with your heating system.
I would also ask for referrals of past customers and I WOULD CALL them. You can ask about installation, how clean they were, how long it took. Any problems after or durring the install. ect..
For more details on how to choose a heating system whether it runs by gas or oil you may want to visit http://www.heatingoilhelp.com Its a site that focuses on oil heated systems but a lot of the information also transfers to the gas side.
John http://www.HeatingOilHelp.com If you like my suggestions please visit the site and rate me if you would. Thanks
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

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Interestingly I am getting a furnace quote from home depot today. Gas forced air, 90+. I am wondering about one speed vs 2 speed vs variable speed furnaces?
Will get quote on air but probably wait till spring for install matter of $
Having been thru credit card hell we DONT go there ever again
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jbogs wrote:

I don't think a car analogy is a good one. Imagine walking into a car dealership and saying I want model X, with options Y and engine Z and all of a sudden getting interrupted by the dealer saying, sorry, you can't choose the engine, I will pick the engine for you that will maximize your gas mileage and give you barely adequate performance under your worse case load conditions (i.e., you will have to floor the gas pedal to maintain 55 mph), I don't think many consumers would be happy to hear that...
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Sorry for the missunderstanding. What I was trying to say didnt reflect buying a system like you would buy a car but evaluating the function ie efficiency of the system using the analogy of fuel milage. For example if you get a unit that is bigger than you actually need and it short cycles (like city driving) you will get less efficiency per gallon (less miles per gallon) then getting a unit that meets the heat load specs so when it runs, it runs longer (like highway milage) and is more efficient. This does not mean just adequate performance what it does mean is the unit should not be oversized or your going to be wasting yuor money on the unit and wasting you money on fuel.
Hope that helps John http://www.HeatingOilHelp.com and
http://www.HomeHeatingOilPrices.com
bungalow snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

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"jbogs" wrote:

bullshit. some manufacturers (Bryant) dictate that 50% of a dealers techs are to be Nate certified. A tech can be Nate certified on oil furnaces, and yet be clueless and non-certified on heat pumps.
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www.hvacexcellence.com
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er..
www.hvacexcellence.org
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wrote:

Have you ever taken any of their tests? I have. Anyone straight out of a good tech school, with no field experience whatsoever can pass them. I know because I did.
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