Check your Windows 10 block settings

[Mayayana]

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I saw that one. Interesting, though by the end the author seemed to be more tongue-in- cheek than serious.

[Mayayana]

| > With near-total surveillance | > between business and gov't we're getting into unknown | > territory. We're inadvertently redefining human rights. | | Sure! And, besides grumbling, wat do you suggest folks do about | this? And, what portion of their lifestyle should they sacrifice | to take on this effort?? |

I'm only suggesting making an effort to deal with it, which you seem to be doing yourself. We can't completely protect email, but we can avoid free webmail that redefines our own files as their property.

CVS now sells customer data to drug companies. What to do about that? I can go to other drug stores. But is Walgreens any better? I don't know. In any case, I can keep track of it and vote with both my votes and my wallet. If most people even just disabled 3rd-party cookies it would be a crisis for online advertisers.

Partly this is to discourage the practices and partly it's to help prevent them from getting worse. If people accept that Google owns their email then Google will own their email. It doesn't have to be that way.

I once had a Jewish friend whose entire extended family was lost in WW2. Only his parents got out. I once asked him why the Jews didn't leave Germany, despite the restrictions, abuse, forced wearing of Star of David.... The treatment kept getting worse, yet most of them just stayed. He said that's a common question that Jews ask among themselves. I suppose probably it was just another case of the slow-boiling frog: The water doesn't seem *too* hot yet, and it's a lot of hassle to jump out.

I think the Star of David emblems are a pretty good analogy to current issues. (At the risk of melodrama, perhaps. :) One could easily accept them with excuses. Who cares? What are we going to do? Move to France? That would be one big headache. And aren't we Jews, anyway? So what harm is there in wearing these emblems? But the requirement itself was a humiliation and a step in the systematic abuse of the citizenry.

I wonder how people have even allowed things to go as far as they have, with email being spied on while geographic location and activities are tracked.

There's very little privacy protection at present. The only example I'm aware of is the Video Privacy Protection Act, which resulted from Robert Bork's video rental history being leaked to the press.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

I know that librarians typically won't tell you who has a particular book out, but whether that's because of a legal restriction or simply because of the librarians' code of ethics I don't know.

Perce

[Ed Pawlowski]

We may make a list so nothing is forgotten, but I don't want to be restricted to it. If something looks good, we may try it. Life would be boring if we never ventured out and tried something different. Often, my goal is to come home with something never tried before.

Major purchases like appliances, cars, furniture is researched before hand and we've been satisfied with what we bought. Minor purchases like groceries always have some impulse items. A cheese that looks good or a thick Porterhouse steak may grab me.

Just as I often turn down a road that I have no idea where it goes.

As for Msft tracking me, they will become very bored.

[Don Y]

Again, people don't place any VALUE on those things! OTOH, they seem to place value on being ABLE to pay $4 for a cup of coffee, etc.

I.e., you can't force people to adopt a particular set of values (even if it is entirely obvious to you -- or me!)

There's far too much of an incentive for advertisers to QUICKLY work around such a change in use. Instead of dropping a cookie on your machine, they'd reference another "nocookie" domain that bore the cost of tracking you! A line or two in an included file for each web page...

You're fighting human nature. People are lazy. And, suckers for anything that *seems* "free". "Buy" music -- and then pay someone to serve those files *back* to you?? :<

Exactly.

I had a friend who claimed he "had nothing to hide". To which, I replied, "I notice your bank statements still come in an *envelope* (surely a POSTCARD would be cheaper for his financial institution!)"

Here, you must be able to provide proof of citizenship (or, the legal authority to be here) on demand. Of course, us while folk figure that;s not a problem as no one's likely to demand it of *us*...

The Patriot Act went a long way to convincing people that they *need* to be spied on. "We're keeping you safe! Besides, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE???"

This is primarily a problem in the US -- where business interests always trump personal liberties. I wonder what it would be like if these same businesses were willing to sell this information to The Voting Public? E.g., which movies my Congressman watches? Which books he reads? Which cell phone towers are carrying his calls "after hours" (and if those are the correct towers given his alleged home address)? What sorts of clothing items he purchases? Any mail order deliveries (in brown paper boxes)? etc.

Stop being predictable and the value of that data rapidly diminishes. Yet, the cost of collecting and maintaining it never does!

Once folks *have* some data, there is a strong incentive to try to hold onto it -- even if it no longer appears to be relevant. The thinking being "I've already got this. If I discard it, I may never be able to collect *it*, again! Best buy more disk space (and more staff) just in case it *has* value!"

My automation system has a "long memory" so it can make deductions based on past observations. Memory is cheap ($100 per installed TB is peanuts!). So, why *not* remember everything the occupants/users did yesterday? And, the day before? Why *not* recall what the *local* (i.e., on this plot of land!) weather was last year at this time? And, what the *reported* weather (for this part of town) was at that same time?

Surely all of these "bits" might be of help in determining what the user might want to do today. Or, what the weather will

*really* be -- regardless of what the local forecaster claims "at the airport".

Each time I think of businesses, guberments, etc. mindlessly collecting everything they can get their hands on, I think about how quickly this pile grows. And, the costs of keeping it as well as digging through it. When does the pile of data collapse under its own weight? (again, not wanting to discard ANY of it!)

Ask google what the search results for "foobiggle" *were* three weeks ago and they'll look at you funny -- "Who cares! We're concerned with the results for *today* (or tomorrow)"

[Don Y]

I think there was (legal?) a push for libraries to track your "borrows". I recall some years ago our local librarians taking a stance and NOT doing that.

OTOH, our catalog (and user interface -- including reserves, checkouts, etc.) is now farmed out to a Canadian company (apparently, city workers aren't smart enough to maintain a database of books and lenders -- yet, I don't recall hearing of any layoffs! I guess they must be maintaining something

*equally* important, now...)

[Vic Smith]

You have no basis for saying that of course. I told you before that I am aware of what you term "spyware." And I've disabled all of it that concerns me. I accepted the EULA with my eyes open.

snip

"May be?" Well, if that's your proof of "spying" you don't have much. Those articles are months old, and I read similar even before I installed Win10. If MS does anything illegal, I'm sure the feds will jump on them. There are plenty of people "spying" on MS too. I don't plan on doing anything illegal, but if I do I sure as hell won't do it on my computer. Anyway, I'm not pro or anti MS. It just IS. You apparently don't like MS.

[Don Y]

There are two kinds of shopping -- for staples and for a particular need. The former is largely a constant activity: you need so many rolls of toilet paper per butt per month, so many calories of foodstuffs, etc. This is the area where marketers try to influence your purchases with "impulse" buys. If you don't regularly buy smoked salmon, then how are they ever going to *sell* you smoked salmon?? And, if they don't convince new customers to buy their smoked salmon, then sales will only go down, over time, as the old customers die off, etc.

We are keenly aware of a vendor changing their offerings -- almost invariably in favor of something more expensive or more uniquely associated with them (can't buy it anywhere else). And, when a vendor tries to manipulate our purchases by changing, discontinuing or repricing one of these items, we make a conscious effort to RE-decide "is this worth it?" I.e., the vendor doesn't get a free pass on the fact that we had *previously* made that decision in their favor!

Example: SWMBO likes TJ's vegetarian chili. TJ has been out of stock (for a LONG time). I suspect they would prefer her to purchase some *other*/similar product that they offer. Instead, we put "vegetarian chili" on the list and let *all* vendors compete for that business (figure of speech... we just start looking for product offerings from EVERY vendor).

Lo and behold, Amy's is the exact same vegetarian chili that TJ's *used* to sell! More expensive -- but, we can be selective about when and where we buy it and, as such, end up paying the same as if we'd purchased it from TJ's (who no longer SELLS it!).

I.e., this sort of practice (common of TJ's and Costco) ends up typically *costing* them business from our perspective. (We are seriously considering dropping the Costco membership as our purchases there have steadily decreased due to their "product lineup" changes). I'm sure this wasn't the *intention* of their policies -- they'd be much happier if we were buying the higher profit margin "Kirkland" offerings, or the imported lemon juice (are Italian lemons more lemony than ours??), or...

Shopping for a specific need is typically more time consuming. And, you're more willing to invest that time (ask me how much time I'm willing to invest buying toilet paper! :> ) because you have a genuine, specific *need*.

New car is too high and wide for me to comfortably wash the roof. Other cars I could just reach over and get the entire surface. So, need something to make this easier: a small step ladder (but how will that fare in actual use?) or a "sponge on a pole" (will that end up scratching the finish, over time?).

So, the "in search of" list gets this item added so that as we find ourselves at places that *might* offer something along these lines, we *remember* to look at their offerings. It's not worth a focused effort to find a suitable solution ASAP.

Next, I need to locate some thumb drives (right price, capacity, shape, etc.).

We shopped around for a "garbage can" that exactly "fits" (supports) the bags that we use. This gives the bag the required support when we need it. And, gives us a garbage can when we don't (e.g., to collect twigs that would otherwise rip a plastic bag).

[Don Y]

I don't think the issue is MS breaking the law. Rather, I think Mayayana is lamenting the lack of concern folks have for personal privacy.

I tend to be obsessive about privacy issues -- yet am not about to move to a cabin in the back woods (drawing even MORE attention to myself!) just to avoid these "data leaks".

You may not be doing anything technically *illegal* -- yet not want knowledge of that to become available to others!

My (ex)BinL was "fishing in someone else's pond". When my sister suspected this, we sat down with his cell phone records, ATM cards, credit cards, etc. -- i.e., all of the bills that my sister routinely paid. Instead of just looking at the "Pay this amount" line, we started looking at the items *listed* as part of that total.

It wasn't hard to figure out which days he had started *out* for work -- yet ended up traveling in the opposite direction, spending

8 hours "there" before conveniently "coming home from work". Of course, it's relatively easy to figure out who *owns* the phone numbers that he was calling. And, see the patterns to all this...

Likewise, his facebook page, etc.

Technically, no evidence of any *laws* being broken. But, I can assure you, he wasn't happy that this information was "available" to others!

As I said upthread, I don't see the alarm in complaining that MS is doing something that others figured out LONG BEFORE MS!

In the 70's, there was a TV show (one of those "magazine" shows... maybe 60 minutes?) that did a piece of these sorts of issues -- long before folks had email addresses, Intellius, etc.

Basically, they took a couple's canceled checks for the previous 12 month period and, with their consent, flew them to the "other coast" and gave them to a PI. The PI was instructed not to break any laws, and not to contact them. But, given 30 days to deduce everything he could about this couple.

Then, the "show" went back to show you their daily lives, their home, family, car(s), Dad headed off to work, etc. I.e., to give you an idea of how they lived.

At the end of the show, they revisited the PI and asked him what conclusions he could draw from their canceled checks. And, you saw him deducing much of the same stuff that you'd just been

*shown* (she's pregnant, has her hare neatly coifed, they drive an older model car, he wears a suit to work, they have two dogs, etc.).

Just from the record of those transactions that they considered worth the time to RECORD on little slips of paper (checks!).

[Imagine what could be done if you could watch their web searches, track their phone calls, etc.]

Seeing this just at teh time that *I* was becoming a financially independent actor (i.e., my own credit cards, not relying on mommy and daddy to buy things for me, etc.) had a profound effect on the information that I "willingly leak".

[E.g., shortly after moving here, some "religious types" came knocking on the door. Lots of casual questions that were obviously intended to "collect data". They were disappointed that I wasn't as "forthcoming" in volunteering details that were of interest to them (who the f*ck are you people? what makes you think I'd want you to know these things?? do *I* get to grill you about arbitrary questions that *I* might consider "interesting"? :> )]

[Mayayana]

| Those articles are months old,

Yes. Beginning of July. And still relevant.

| Anyway, I'm not pro or anti MS. It just IS. | You apparently don't like MS. |

Like them? If someone steals your car do you want them arrested because you don't like them? "Anti-MS" is just one of the common defenses of the ostriches. Along with paranoia and tinfoil hat silliness. All I'm doing is laying out the facts so that people can decide for themselves. You're the one who called the facts BS.

I'd be more than happy to wax acidic about Apple, Google and Facebook if you like. I love to attack Apple. :) Not because I "don't like" them but because they're a sleazy company with an undeserved public image of virtue. Billions goes into creating the public images of these companies. No one spends money to show their dark sides. The topic here just happens to be Windows 10, so it's Microsoft's sleaze that I'm pointing out.

[Ed Pawlowski]

IMO, yes, the fresh stuff I've had in Italy is the citrus I've ever had. Can't speak for the particular juice in Costco though, but I'd try it over other brands.

[Don Y]

To add to *tea*? You;ll never notice the difference! Are you sure they are juicing *ripe* lemons? And not just the same sort of crud that is juiced *here*?

For baked goods, I've found lemons off our own tree beat anything store bought. I don't think people realize how "unripe" the stuff you get in most stores actually is. Try a *ripe* lemon and you'll never settle for store bought, again! Think "sweet" not "sour".

The same can be said for limes. Entirely different taste from what you've grown to expect.

[And blood oranges make "traditional OJ" taste like swill!]

[Ed Pawlowski]

If you have a lemon tree you should not even be considering buying lemon juice. Even for tea

As I said, my experience in Italy was with fresh, not bottled. My brother used to send me fresh ripe lemons from his tree so I know what you mean.

[Don Y]

Last tree died in a freeze a couple of years ago. Its replacement is only in its second "producing" season. Last year, yield was 60 pounds. I imagine 100 pounds this year (tree is only about 5 ft tall). Still *much* less than I consume in the course of a year -- which is how long that juice would have to last (frozen) after harvest.

The "fresh harvest" will first be applied to baked goods (where the difference in taste is most remarkable). Any surplus will go into tea or SWMBO's various "salads". I suspect we *might* get through June before needing to buy "bottled". But, at that time, the use will only be for tea.

[Vic Smith]

Well, I'm not concerned beyond what I can reasonably control. And most people are aware of these "privacy issues." Mayanaya presumes everybody who uses Win10 is a dope. Anyway, that's my impression. Could be wrong.

He should have been more careful. But that just shows that such transactional data has been a "privacy" issue for a long time. Hell, I didn't give my SSN or DOB to anybody but employers, and had absolutely no credit history 40 years ago. Yet I got a letter from my state showing I had been drawing unemployment when I was not. I reported it, and that ended that.

snip

Uh, his wife. And he should have known that. You can't cure stupid.

Of course. And there's a difference here. MS doesn't have my SSN or any other critical information. They have my IP address. I've probably done a thousand online CC transactions over the years, and not been burned once. Of course others haven't been so "lucky." OTOH, Amazon, Newegg, Home Depot et al have my CC number. An unethical person with one of those firms can pull a credit report and get my SSN. Whatareyougonnado? You can have no credit and only deal in cash. But a camera will track you in that 7-11 and see you buying a Hustler magazine. Did you see the 1980 flick "Atlantic City" staring Burt Lancaster? He was an over-the-hill hoodlum who dealt in cash only. He was in the process of going on the lam with a young woman, and she said something like this: "They can track us." "Nah. don't worry about it." "They'll track us by your credit card number." "Nah, I don't have a credit card." "Then they'll track us by your social security number." "Nah. I don't have a social security number." Only time I really felt jealousy watching a movie. Probably had just done my taxes.

[Muggles]

I've been cleaning up my back yard and garden today and used my bag contraption. LOVED IT! Cleaning up yard waste was a breeze. Now, I have to decide if I'm going to upgrade it from zip ties to screws and bolts. lol

[Don Y]

This is the key point: ---------------------^^^^^^^^^^ How far do you go in screwing up your lifestyle just for the sake of *claiming* you've protected your privacy?

I don't think most people give serious thought to them. I think they are busy with things that they *think* are "more important" (and, which *may* well be -- to them!)

I have a buddy who was obsessive about privacy. One day, I saw him clean shaven (had previously been ZZTop-ish) and couldn't help but comment on the DRAMATIC change!

"I had to go get a new photo for my driver's license." "And they made you shave off your beard??" "No. I just wanted to make sure the photo on my DL didn't

*look* like me -- and, I want to have a beard (normally)"

Does he think that folks couldn't imagine/pencil-in a beard on his clean shaven face in the photo??

Dunno. Only he (?) can comment on that.

[BinL's "indiscretions"]

Friend with the beard (above) once was talking about some case where he was trying to preserve his anonymity. I commented: "But, you called their 800 number, right?" "Yeah, so?" "So, don't you think they KNOW the phone number of all callers? Even if that is belatedly after-the-fact?"

They don't explicitly have that information. But, that doesnt mean they can't "accidentally" harvest it in the process of snooping on other transactions that you undertake during the normal use of your computer.

E.g., it's simple for spyware to watch for "Password:" and gobble up any text that you type into that "text box" -- especially if the text box is set not to echo characters, etc.

SWMBO uses her CC's extensively. She is *routinely* receiving replacement cards in the mail. Of course, the CC company never tells her *where* the breach occurred so she has no way of trimming those vendors from her use.

A "friend" who worked at one of the local banks went snooping into a family member's account. Of course, bank manager claimed this wasn't possible (really? then how did this information -- balance, etc. -- get into that party's hands?). Not worth the time to pursue legal remedies. Instead, close the (sizeable) account and let the bank manager decide how "happy" he wants to be with the consequences of this employee's actions!

[Mayayana]

| Well, I'm not concerned beyond what I can reasonably control. | And most people are aware of these "privacy issues." | Mayanaya presumes everybody who uses Win10 is a dope. | Anyway, that's my impression. Could be wrong.

Most people are not aware of these issues. That's the point. It's none of my business if you don't mind Windows calling home with your data, but that's not what you said. You said any such concern was BS. So who's calling who a dope?

Another aspect, for me, is frustration with where things are going. Not because I hate MS but because I love Windows. I got into computers late - 1998. To me it seemed that Windows was like a fun car. Macs were an overpriced car with the hood welded shut and limited tools. And Linux was like a do-it-yourself car kit. At the time, most of the software was for Windows. Microsoft encouraged people to learn Windows and provided tools at all levels. I taught myself Windows programming, made some money and had a lot of fun. I've written software for myself, which would be a much bigger challenge on Apple or Linux. But since Win2000/ME I've watched as the system gradually gets locked down and turned into interactive cable TV. In the car analogy, what's happening is that they're ceasing the sales of cars and trying to replace existing cars with taxis. It's approaching a time when the only software that people will be able to write for Windows will be phone/tablet style trinket apps. So-called universal (Metro) apps. Not being able to control one's own data is part of the transition, just as there's little option to control what Apple collects on an iPhone because there's no control over the iPhone OS.

It's not only Microsoft, by any means. Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon and Google are all trying to grab the whole pie. All except Facebook are approaching it with multiple devices, apps, social connections and shopping. They're each trying to suck in as many customers as possible to a new version of the AOL walled garden. The special tragedy with Windows is that it has been, and can be, so much more. Google is thoroughly corrupt. Apple has always controlled their devotees. Amazon is trying for a total retail monopoly, accessed in large part through Kindles and phones, and will undoubtedly jack up their prices if they ever achieve it. Only Microsoft, until relatively recently, wasn't trying to own their customers. They were simply selling good tools. Most of their customers have been business and those customers demanded computers as functional tools for which they can write custom, inhouse software.

All I want is a decent computer that I control myself. I'd be less bothered by people who choose shopping TV, frankly, if a straight computer was also still an easy option. But that's becoming an increasingly complex challenge. The AOL walled garden is not an offering. It's a sneaky strategy. The complexity of settings and actions required just to prevent Win7 being overwritten by Win10 is a good example. Even Ubuntu Linux has stooped to ads and spyware:

Remember when AOL was the thing? I was using a friend's Mac at the time. New to computers, I'd heard about the famous Internet but couldn't seem to find it. I just kept going in circles between AOL chat groups, credit card offers, games, shopping.... I asked a friend in tech support: Where is this famous Internet? He had to guide me through the steps to sneak out the back door of AOLs obnoxious arcade and onto the open Web, where I was actually free to visit any website. :)

[Roger Blake]

What you do consider "screwing up" ones' lifestyle? I pay cash for all local purchases and rarely buy anything online. I use settings and install extensions on web browsers that help prevent tracking. I don't use Microsoft, Apple, or Google products.

To me none of this is "screwing up" my lifestyle. They don't even require a lot of effort. (In particular buying everything with cash is just a continuation of what I've always done. Using a credit or debit card for everything would be the strange, screwed up thing to me.)

[Don Y]

Ever rent a car? Fly on an airplane? Then, you've used a credit card (and your travels are now, literally, trackable). I was "forced" to get (several) credit cards in my teen years as I was traveling extensively for work; impossible to carry that much cash around the country *or* rent a car with it!

Buy real estate? Purchase a "big ticket item" (e.g., car, expensive piece of test equipment)? (Sub)contract a job (have your house painted, a major auto repair, hospital bill)? Then, chances are, you used a charge card or wrote a check.

Have a prescription filled? I.e., for most meds, it's a simple step backwards to deduce *why* you're having the Rx filled! The more meds, the easier the conclusions drawn.

And, like me, are *more* trackable as a result! Several sites on the web to check this but here's the first two that popped up:

The first link claims (for me): "Within our dataset of several million visitors, only one in 2,987,527 browsers have the same fingerprint as yours" but, only does so when I enable Jscript.

In the second web site my browser reported as "2 out of 103512" with Jscript DISabled. I.e., the other site *could* conceivably have included these similar tests (but didn't?).

And neither tried to take into account my IP address! I.e., any "other" browsers that were indistinguishable from mine PROBABLY were *not* within 100 miles of here!

[Ideally, you want to find the site that has had the greatest number of *unique* visitors]

We already know you use Linux for USENET access -- with slrn v0.9.9p1. And, that you post through Eternal September with account "U2FsdGVkX1+baz31s5YbQ3GRKudpY5+z3TIqssyP5v0=" from a host that can be uniquely identified as "0db17d4457d3cd163162e46470f0c6bf".

I used to routinely mangle the identification strings in my browser, mail client, DNS service, etc. thinking "that way, no one will know which versions of these products I'm running"! Of course, that just made my network presence *incredibly* unique!

Anyone send you email? Do you *use* a telephone? Send/receive snail mail? Each of these people/organizations further refines your profile because, chances are, *they* have had profiles developed regarding their behaviors. E.g., the "metadata" tells folks much about you even if the actual "content" is never examined.

E.g., if they tend to spend a lot on alcoholic beverages, then its likely that *you* probably also do -- just not with "trackable currency". And, the fact that you *don't* use those mechanisms further identifies you ("Ah, he's one of these guys who TRIES to stay off the radar... I wonder what HE is hiding??")

Have a CATV subscription? (If you *don't*, then the value of HaveCATVSubscription for *your entry* in the tracking database is just '0' instead of '1' -- but it doesn't remove you from that database!)

Have an ISP? Are you *sure* they haven't been served with a warrant to disclose your email, IP traffic, etc. and ORDERED not to disclose said warrant to you (or anyone else)? Even *when* you use the network reveals something about you (owl/lark). The sites you visit even moreso!

I had an associate who would send his finished designs to his clients in encrypted "envelopes". And, they always seemed to take days to arrive -- instead of *minutes*. Does the Internet have a "warehouse" where packets *sit* during transit (like the Post Office warehouses snail mail)?

Ever go into a bank? Casino? Walk by a CCTV camera? Each of them are loaded with CCTV cameras that *used* to just want to "gather evidence" -- in the event of a crime. Now, the video is harvested. ("The guy at teller window #3 always makes CASH withdrawals" And, no HUMAN needs to make that observation! A machine can watch what the teller's machine is doing and correlate that with your image on the video feed. And, associate this with a *name* on the payroll check, etc. that you are providing or bank account number from which the funds are being withdrawn. Or, don't you have a bank account?)

Drive a car down a road? I.e., your license plate has probably been routinely photographed and sits in a database, somewhere, indicating when and where it was photographed, direction of travel, etc.

If you're deliberately avoiding all of these "tracking/profiling opportunities", I suspect your lifestyle has *significantly* been compromised to make that happen!