cheap latext paint as latex based concrete admixture

Greetings,
Latex admixture for concrete costs many fold what cheap latex paint costs ($4/gallon). What would happen if I just used latex paint instead? Yes, I know it probably won't be as good as the special purpose admixture-- but how far off are we talking about?
Thank you for your time, William
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Acryl 60 and the other latex modifiers with which I am familiar smell more like Elmer's glue than paint. At he cost of equivalent volumes of glue, I do not see a reason to not use the correct stuff.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Keep the whole world singing . . . . DanG (remove the sevens) snipped-for-privacy@7cox.net

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Greetings,
I don't think it is unreasonable to investigate latex paint.
According to: http://www.cdnpaint.org/enviro11landfillingdrylatexpaint_e.htm
" Uses for latex paint are also being investigated, including applications in finished concrete products for reinforcing properties. "
According to: http://www.carwash.com/article.asp?IndexIDB20803
" Ordinary latex paints typically contain about 25 percent to 30 percent solids by volume and 70 percent to 75 percent water, while top-quality latex paints generally have 35 percent to 45 percent solids and only 55 percent to 65 percent water. "
" Low PVC paints (10 percent to 22 percent) have a low ratio of pigment to binder and are generally associated with a glossy paint. Conversely, higher PVC paints (45 percent to 75 percent) are loaded with pigment compared to binder which results in a flat finish. Paints with a satin finish have a PVC in the 28 percent to 38 percent range. (See Figure 5.) "
I think this means a cheap gloss paint is over 20% latex. As far as I know latex is the only active ingredient in latex admixtures. This means that if latex admixtures contain 40% latex using cheap paint is about the same as using one part admixture and one part water.
These are just my thoughts. I could be missing important facts like "not all latex is the same" or "latex paint contains some other chemical that destroys concrete" etc, etc. I am looking for additional input before I actually switch from admixture to latex paint.
Hope this helps, William

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

but how

I'm assuming this is a rhetorical question.
Or a troll. You can't really be thinking of doing this, are you?

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It's too bad you aren't half as bright as this kid.:)
http://www.sciencenewsforkids.org/articles/20040414/ScienceFairZone.asp
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Greetings,
It is true that I could do some experimentation - and because things look promising I will. That said I thought the first prudent step before experimentation was to do some research and to ask the opinion of others. This isn't a troll. It's a legitimate inquiry with some degree or promise.
Hope this helps,
William

costs
Yes, I

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I have a bunch of latex paint that I would like to get rid of in a responsible way. When I have time I think I will mix the old paint with concrete mix and see if the concrete cures. Give your idea a test, won't cost much or take too much time.
William Deans wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
scribbled this interesting note:

To make it a good test it will require patience. Mix up some with conventional water and some with latex paint. Use both in identical fashions for the exact same amount of time. Report back after several years of use after examining both samples inside and out for defects...
Actually, I've kind of already done this, but only with the more expensive latex admixture. I patched a place on my driveway with sandmix and admixture to see how it holds up as compared with sandmix mixed with water (I admit there is an assumption here...I'm assuming the previous patches, which were done before I arrived at this property, were done with sandmix and water...a pretty safe assumption, I think.)
After six years or so the sandmix mixed with the latex admixture is still solid and holding firm with no chips and no flaking off.
Perhaps now I'll have to do the experiment with some leftover latex house paint...I've got a bucket or two I'll not use again...I just wonder how a multicolored driveway will look???
-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Greetings,
If your current paint is white (or light coloured) you might consider asking home depot to add a bit more tent to match it up with your driveway. In theory, a properly tinted Latex patch should be a better match than sandmix.
Hope this helps, William

costs
Yes, I

but how

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Thanks Andy.
Please do let me know how it goes, William

costs
Yes, I

how
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I think the problem is that there isn't that much latex in the paint, it is mostly water. If the paint is free it might be worth a shot but I wouldn't count on it working. You might find out there is more than one kind of "latex" or there is something else in paint that compromises concrete. A lot also depends on the property you desire from your admix. ASTM spends a lot of money assuring the result you get with specified products. Anything else is a crap shoot. It might be noted crap shooters win about half the time tho ;-)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

looks like the department of transportation uses WLP (waste platex paint) in concrete used for barricades http://www.productstewardship.us/supportingdocs/DCNonPaintUses.ppt and its benefits are similar to using virgin latex
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
this interesting note:

Just did a search of my own and turned this up: http://www.csr.org/wdo_reports/finalreport.pdf
Seems to indicate that latex paint in concrete in promising, but more work needs to be done to study it and improve on the few complications noted.
Perhaps I'll give this a try when I finish patching up my own driveway!:~)
-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
William Deans writes:

There are several items used both as concrete fortifiers and paint polymers, including acrylics and PVA (polyvinyl acetate). PVA is also what is in white glue or Elmer's glue. (Indeed, you can improvise your own paint out of Elmer's and pigments).
PVA concrete admixes typically advise against immersion. Not as resistant to water as acrylic.
The questions I would raise are (1) proportion of polymer vs water in paint may be lower than in the more expensive admix, and (2) paint has pigments and viscosity modifiers that will likely weaken the concrete. So it is hard to tell whether you get more polymer per dollar in paint vs admix.
(NB: "latex" in the context of paint or an admix has nothing to do with rubber. It just means "emulsion", in this case of acrylic or PVA monomers.)
As to whether it works, you can improvise scientific testing of concrete for bonding and compressive strength with a shop press, if you are so equipped.
If I had to guess, I would expect waste paint to improve concrete, but not as much as a real admix.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
FIVE STAR REPLY!
You posed two questions: (Q1) proportion of polymer vs water in paint may be lower than in the more expensive admix
Answer: cheap gloss latex paint is 20%+ polymer <== please see numbers / sources in previous post Latex admixture is 4x% polymer. Based on these numbers you get substantially more polymer/dollar with paint. I am happy to hear that the polymers used in concrete admixtures are likely the same as those used in paint.
(Q2) paint has pigments and viscosity modifiers that will likely weaken the concrete.
Answer: I am not aware that paint pigment weakens concrete (and I could always use paint mixing base) but I am very happy you mentioned the viscosity modifiers. They could be a deal killer and I will check them out right away.
Thanks again, William

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Why not get the MSDS for the admixture and compare it to the MSDS for your paint? If latex is the stuff that you are looking for you can buy liquid latex for about $20 a gallon.
But if all you are going to do is top your driveway with a skim layer, ask yourself these questions:
1] If you are able to successfully substitute latex paint for admixture for this project, how much will you save?
2] If you substitute latex paint for admixture and you fail to achieve the desired result, how much will it cost you to redo the project?
Of course you could experiment on a small scale but the trick there would be to quantify your results. For instance if you poured yourself a small slab of concrete and then topped it wit your experimental mixture, is this going to predict how your mixture will do when you trowel it all over your driveway?
Seems to me that there are a lot of variables here to control for, and given the answer I suspect will arise when you answer questions 1 and 2 it seems to me that you will find that you are better off leaving the chemistry to the chemists.
--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Roger Shoaf writes:

MSDSs don't typically give emulsion concentrations.
Easy enough to test yourself from samples, though. Wet some paper towels with the samples, let them dry. Weigh (A) before wetting, (B) after wetting, and (C) after drying. Proportion of solids is (C-A)/(B-A).
I used this method to evaluate various brands of admix for a big job. They like to hide their competitive facts like how much water you're buying.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.