Cheap electric switches and outlets

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Getting home rewireing done, are the cheapest grade Home Depot .59c electric switches and outlets quality. Do they last. Contractor agreed to put in mid grade but they look like HD cheap stuff, I don't want stuff that easily breaks.
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cheap grade espically backstab are junk
better to go with better quality
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The cheap ones are probably OK for low power applicances that get plugged in, seldom. Television, for example.
For the most part, the labor is the real cost. I'd go with the better grade. If the contractor stuff looks cheap, tell him, and ask if there was some mistake made.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Getting home rewireing done, are the cheapest grade Home Depot .59c electric switches and outlets quality. Do they last. Contractor agreed to put in mid grade but they look like HD cheap stuff, I don't want stuff that easily breaks.
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Go for the good stuff. You are paying a bunch to get the job done. You are probably putting in 50 devices. The beter ones will be about $ 2. May cost you $ 75 more to do the job right.
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At the Home Depot near me, the tamper resistant are about all they have.
Sorry to hear about the more expensive sockets. That's not good.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
However, since 2008 code requires all outlets (within 5' of the floor) to be tamper resistant. These have little covers that prevent kids from sticking things into the outlets, but normal plugs still insert easily. These cost a little more, but are slightly higher quality. Surprisingly, despite being a code requirement for over four years, they are relatively hard to find. They're in the box stores, but usually hiding down on the bottom shelf or something.
I did splurge on some top of the line outlets for our kitchen. I figured we would be plugging and unplugging things frequently there, so it would be smart to put in better outlets. Bad choice. It was so hard to push in the plugs and pull them out again, it felt like we would break the outlet or damage the cord (always pull the plug, not the cord!). Needless to say, I eventually replaced them with the cheaper outlets that were easier to plug and unplug. They may not last as long, but they're cheap and easy to replace when needed.
Anthony
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I hadn't heard of the new tamper resistant requirement until I was working on a recent remodeling project at my in-laws. I was surprised how difficult they were to find locally. Considering the added safety and minimal cost difference, I see no reason why they shouldn't be used everywhere. I'm surprised the non-tamper resistant are even sold anymore.

They would be great for areas where you plug things in and leave them. But the insertion force was a little too high for daily use.
Anthony
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We survived for many years without them. Now, we have the nanny state government dictating our every action. From aerators, toilets, seat belts, energy efficiency.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
I hadn't heard of the new tamper resistant requirement until I was working on a recent remodeling project at my in-laws. I was surprised how difficult they were to find locally. Considering the added safety and minimal cost difference, I see no reason why they shouldn't be used everywhere. I'm surprised the non-tamper resistant are even sold anymore.
Anthony
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True, that's all I have in my house.
However, I don't see a downside to the tamper resistant outlets. Cords plug in just as easily, they look nearly identical, and they keep kids from sticking things in them. Yes, there is a minimal cost difference, but it's a small price to pay for the added safety, and you don't have to buy those stupid plastic safety plugs to protect the outlets. If you've ever used those plastic plugs, it always seems like you're at more risk of getting shocked trying to remove the darn things. :)

Again, what's the downside? Sinks without aerators splatter all over the place. The old toilets used a lot more water, but didn't flush any better than the modern toilets do. Seat belts keep you in the car if you have an accident, and help keep you in your seat even if you never have an accident. Energy efficiency requirements save energy and the money you spend on heating/cooling.
I know people get hung up on the government controlling anything, but not many people would have voluntarily chosen low flow toilets, extra insulation, and similar items.
Anthony
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wrote:

Well, they are plastic and you're not supposed to stick a knife in there to get them out. Sounds like you're a Darwin candidate.
BTW, those plastic inserts do a pretty good job of blocking drafts.

Of government regulating your every move? <shudder>

Many *with* aerators splatter water all over the place.

Bullshit.
Why isn't that *my* choice?

Right. Because too many *don't* work.

Bullshit. If there is a benefit, people don't need legislation to change. Conversly, if there is no benefit, only Congress sees fit to tell you what to do. You seem to have no problem with being told what to do. Democrat, right?
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True, but it's usually impossible to pull the things out with your bare fingers. I like to stand in a grounded bucket of water and use a copper rod to pry them out, blindfolded, of course. :)

We sealed the back of our electrical boxes when we built our house, so that's a non-issue in my case.
Have you actually USED the tamper resistant outlets? Don't knock them till you try them. I'm not going to run around the house and replace all of our outlets, but when they do wear out I will most likely replace them with the tamper resistant outlets.

If your aerator is splattering, you need to clean and/or replace the aerator. Or your water pressure could be too high.


Well there's your problem, you're letting cattle use your restroom. :)
There are exceptions to every rule, but all of our 1.6 gallon toilets flush better with less clogging than all the 3.5 gallon toilets we had in our old houses. Of course, the overall performance depends on the plumbing and venting as well.


Would you choose NOT to wear a seatbelt or NOT to insulate your home? If you would choose to do it anyway, I don't see what difference regulation makes.

We use the most basic low flow toilets you find at the home centers and have never had an issue.

Many people don't understand the benefits, or are reluctant to change from the way they have always done things.

Nope, I don't follow any political party.
Anthony
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wrote:

Some people do like to demonstrate Darwin's theory. ;-)

Sealed the backs?

Nope. No use for them. Just something else to break.

I was speaking specifically about one in the men's room at work. Everyone who uses it looks like they have piss poor aim. ;-)
I don't like aerators in some places because I *want* unimpeded flow. I hate waiting around waiting for a pot to fill. The sink is deep enough that it doesn't splash out.

Do I know you? ;-)

The ones in this house take two or three flushes to clear paper. The toilets in our other house are so-so - one is slow, the others not so bad. The problem is forcing the 1.6gal toilets on older homes, where the plumbing isn't up to the latest specs. Actually, the bigger problem is government in our bathrooms.

Maybe. Why am I not given that choice? I know a *lot* of people who prefer not to wear helmets when riding (motorcycles).
?If

Dummy, you can't buy a 2.5gal toilet. You can't buy a house without restrictors. You'll get a ticket for not wearing seatbelts (or helmets in many states). Regulations make a *LOT* of difference. ...a couple of trillion dollars a year, worth of difference.

A new house? ...or you must have chronic diarrhea and use no paper.

A lie.

Another.
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Once the electrical system was wired, we went around and caulked all the openings in the back of the boxes. This stops any airflow through the boxes and out through the outlets. There could still be a little leakage around the outside of the box, but generally the wall cavities are fairly air tight and shouldn't have much airflow anyway.

Agreed. I took the aerator off our bathtub spout, as the tub filled too slowly with it on. Still not sure why they had one there, most don't.

There is no requirement to install the 1.6 gal toilets in older homes, unless you are remodeling the bathroom. If your old toilet is broken you can replace the working parts to get it working again, or you can find an old toilet at a salvage (recycling) supply.
Installing new toilets on older plumbing can be a problem. Many older homes have inadequate venting (if any at all), which impedes the flow (glug glug). The drain pipes are usually larger pipe also to accomodate the increased flow of the old toilets. With the newer toilets the waste spreads out more in the pipe, slowing the velocity.
Ideally, if you're remodeling your bathroom you would upgrade the plumbing at the same time. 1.6 gal toilets with 3" pipe and a good 2" vent work perfectly. We haven't had a single clog with ours in the last seven years, using single flushes.

Old 3.5 gallon toilets are widely available at salvage yards, and you can remove flow restrictors if it's that big of a deal.
Seatbelts don't cost anything unless you get caught not using them.

I vote for democrats, republicans, and independents, depending on the person best qualified for the position. I could care less what political party they are affiliated with. However, in recent years, I would have preferred not to vote for ANY of them! :)
Anthony
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wrote:

There is no requirement to *install*, no. There *IS* a law that says they can't sell new. That's BS.

No, the problem is that older homes often have _smaller_ drain pipes from the toilet (3" rather than 4") and often have severe turns in the plumbing, to fit in 4" walls. It's usually too expensive to fix this and new toilets don't work in many of these situations.

If the world were a perfect place, we wouldn't need Congres (and Obama) running our lives. It's not. Plumbing rarely gets ripped out on a remodel and Congress insists on getting involved with what we do in the bathroom.

Irrelevant.
Now you're showing how stupid you are. You really are a Democrat, aren't you?

...and another.
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The toilet and plumbing are a matched system. You can't expect a new toilet to perform well on old inadequate plumbing. That's like installing a brand new grounded electrical outlet on an old ungrounded knob and tube electrical system.
If your old toilet worked better, why are you replacing it? It would be much easier and cheaper to just rebuild it with new parts.
If you're remodeling your bathroom, it seems foolish not to upgrade the plumbing at the same time. It's not that difficult and the pipe costs less than the new toilet.

I already answered that, but are you that polarized that it really matters? I don't care if you're Republican, Democrat, or Martian, you're entitled to your views and I'm not here to insult you or change your opinion.
Keep an open mind and listen to what other people have to say, even if their ideas disagree with your own. We all might learn something.
Anthony
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wrote:

Complete nonsense. Knob and tube *can* coexist with modern electrical systems. There is no federal law banning modern outlets with K&T.
BTW, there is good reason to use grounded outlets with ungrounded systems. It's perfectly safe, and even meets (most) code, with the addition of a GFCI.

Because the thing broke? Because the bathroom was remodeled? Does it matter why?

Utter nonsense (you're good at that). Often the whole house has to be demoed to replace the plumbing. That's unlikely with a bathroom upgrade.

You lie a lot, too.

...and another.
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Yes, but according to your logic you should be able to go down to the local home center and buy the old two prong ungrounded outlets. Good luck with that. Damn government interfering with your choice again. :)

A GFCI is not a substitute for a real ground wire. Yes, code allows a GFCI to be used in remodel situations to increase safety when a real ground wire can't be installed. But you can't substitute a GFCI for a grounded outlet when installing new electrical.

Now that's nonsense. You don't have to replace the entire plumbing system, just install proper venting for the toilet. At most you cut the flooring and wall finish back so you can run a vent. Granted, this can be more complicated in a two story home, but it's not a huge job if you're remodeling the bathroom anyway (anything more than cosmetic changes like paint).
I just remodeled my in-laws bath. I gutted the old plaster and lath, cut back the old cast iron pipe so I could splice in new PVC drains and vents, and installed new wiring. No big deal. Except for a couple holes through the floor and ceiling for new pipes, none of the rest of the house was affected.
But what do I know, I'm just a stupid lying Democrat spouting more nonsense. :)
Anthony
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On 05/23/2012 05:47 PM, HerHusband wrote:

Last time I checked, I could. They're still an acceptable replacement for existing devices, for ungrounded receps that are not downstream of a GFCI. I expect that to change soon however as I doubt the few mfgrs. that still make them will retool for tamper proof.
I am surprised that tamper proof are still hard to find in the big boxen. One would think that that would be all that you could buy now but that is not the case.
nate
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Hi Nate,

Clearly availability varies by area. I haven't seen new ungrounded outlets for sale around here in many, many years. In fact, I don't know that I've ever seen them for sale in the home centers. Small mom and pop hardware stores and specialty electrical probably had them around a while longer.

Yep, surprised me too. They do carry them, but they're not real obvious unless you're specifically looking for them.
Anthony
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wrote:

Bad example. There are no federal laws against two pronged outlets. Congress didn't legislate a thing.

Irrelevant. You are wrong.

Try that on a slab. Even with a basement, it's a *huge* undertaking.

Nothing.
At least you got one thing right in your life. You can die peacefully, now.
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It wouldn't be the first time, and it won't be the last.
I bow to your superior intellect.

You won't find many homes on slabs around these parts, but I understand it is common in other parts of the country.
Obviously, cutting into a slab is more work, but it's not impossible. Just jackhammer enough to gain access to the pipe, it is done all the time. You only need enough room to install a new toilet flange and angle a vent up to the nearest wall. Clearly this is no small undertaking, but if your remodel project includes installing a new toilet, it makes sense to upgrade the plumbing while everything is accessable.
An unfinished basement is about as good as it gets for access to plumbing.

Well that's good, I was going to live a long happy life till you told me I was too stupid to keep living. :)
Anthony
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