Changing breaker for the outside condenser unit - necessary or ripoff?

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On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 10:40:06 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:

She has AC, they installed a new condenser unit. They haven't changed the breaker yet, they'll be back for that later.
The costs seem excessive to me. It was the standard $100 visit charge for the evaporator coil, plus several hundred "uncovered" costs, then when they came back home warranty made her pay another $100 for that visit (which I think was part of the first failure.) Plus, about $900 in "uncovered" cost s. Okay, I can see maybe the permit being uncovered, but the line set? El ectrical?
My own home warranty costs, when I had one, were just for the site visit. I dropped ours when it appeared I was spending more on the warranty than I would have to just pay for repairs. But I can do little stuff myself and s he can't.
I bought a kitchen/laundry equipment warranty some time back. I did the ma th, if I had one refrigerator failure I'd break even, if more than one I'd come out ahead. I had two and smugly thought I'd beat the system. No, the y figured a way the second one wasn't covered. I still broke even then dro pped the coverage.
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On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 4:10:01 PM UTC-4, TimR wrote:

w?

e breaker yet, they'll be back for that later.

r the evaporator coil, plus several hundred "uncovered" costs, then when th ey came back home warranty made her pay another $100 for that visit (which I think was part of the first failure.) Plus, about $900 in "uncovered" co sts. Okay, I can see maybe the permit being uncovered, but the line set? Electrical?

So if I add that all up, sounds like she paid ~$1400 to replace the evaporator and the condenser unit. I guess that's less than it would have cost with no warranty contract, but it's still a lot out of pocket and she has also paid whatever the payments are over X number of years too. Plus looks like she's still in for an electrician bill too.
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On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 8:14:34 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:

ty

now?

the breaker yet, they'll be back for that later.

for the evaporator coil, plus several hundred "uncovered" costs, then when they came back home warranty made her pay another $100 for that visit (whic h I think was part of the first failure.) Plus, about $900 in "uncovered" costs. Okay, I can see maybe the permit being uncovered, but the line set? Electrical?

Yes. I think they took shameless advantage of her. I'm going to try to ma ke a trip that direction and maybe I can help out some. It never would hav e worked out that way down here where we know people.
I suspect home warranties pick the cheapest. I would rather pay a small pr emium to a contractor who I trusted.
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wrote:

And changing it to "fused" solves the makimum fuse rating problem right where it SHOULD be solved.
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On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 6:55:02 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Who says it should be solved at the disconnect instead of just replacing the breaker at the panel? Assuming the existing disconnect is not fused, putting in a new disconnect with a breaker is obviously more work and cost than just changing a breaker at the panel.
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On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 8:10:44 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
e:

ote:

imum Fuse Size" or Maximum HACR Breaker". To use a higher rated circuit br eaker would be a code violation, invalidate the warranty, and it would fail inspection.

r that part.

maximum size. Both are the same, 20 A (and my breaker is a 20 A).

used or unfused. At my house the disconnect is unfused.

I agree with this. At Home Depot, a nonfused disconnect is $4.88 and a fus ed disconnect is $16.74. But putting a breaker in is just the time to take off the safety plate and snap in a new one. Changing the outdoor disconne ct is a little harder. I could (and have) done either, she can't do any.
The electrician's bill for changing the breaker? $340.00. That's why I th ink she is being taken advantage of. Retired single women on fixed incomes can be a target.
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On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 11:01:19 PM UTC-4, TimR wrote:
Now, I didn't always agree with Stormy's approach. Sometimes he did what I would consider hack work.
But, I don't think he would ever rip anybody off. It would have been cheaper to fly him out to Minneapolis to help out on this one.
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wrote:

The disconnect either is there or should be there, and for protecting the unit - which is obviously the aim of specifying a maximum fuse value, the closer the breaker is to the unit the better the protection. (less chance of delayed trip)
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On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 12:06:28 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Sure, and apparently it's a non-fused type. So to go to fused type, you'd have to replace it. And personally, I wouldn't use a fused one, I'd want a breaker that can be reset, so people aren't left fumbling around looking for fuses they don't have, testing fuses to figure out if they are blown, etc. So now they would need to install a new disconnect plus a breaker, instead of just a breaker. If you need to change the disconnect anyway, then it's a different story.
and for protecting

Less chance of delayed trip? Explain that one. Electrons in equal electrons out. The exact same current is going to be seen by a breaker regardless of whether it's at the panel or the unit.
The only advantage I see to a breaker at the disconnect is that when working on the unit, if you're having problems with the unit, it's tripping the breaker, then you can reset it at the unit while working on it. That is assuming that breaker trips, not the additional one in the panel or both of them, etc.
And the main function of the breaker is not to protect the unit. The overcurrent protection is in the unit itself. The main function is to protect against a dead short in the wiring or the unit.
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I just heard a little more of the story.
The electrician finally arrived and swapped out the breaker.
But he said the wire to the breaker was white, so he used a felt tip marker to color it black.
Does that make any sense?
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On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 8:11:03 AM UTC-4, TimR wrote:

Yes, he marked the ends to identify them. Normally white is used for a neutral, which the AC wouldn't have. If it was one white wire, one black, the installer probably used Romex which is common. It's obvious to anyone that should be working on it what's going on, but marking the white with red would correctly identify it.
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On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 9:04:49 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:

Ah, Romex, I wasn't thinking that. Makes sense. I would have taped it rather than use a Sharpie but I imagine code only says marked. And at least in theory you should do both ends.
I don't have anything on price or permit but I'll be visiting that direction in a week or so and take a look at it.
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On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 9:42:05 AM UTC-4, TimR wrote:

It's required to be marked at both ends and colored tape is a permissible means, in fact that's what I use.

K, thanks, let us know
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On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 8:11:03 AM UTC-4, TimR wrote:

BTW, any update on the final cost of the whole thing? How much did the electrician charge? Had to pay for a permit?
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"TimR" wrote in message
I just heard a little more of the story.
The electrician finally arrived and swapped out the breaker.
But he said the wire to the breaker was white, so he used a felt tip marker to color it black.
Does that make any sense?
In many places where Romex is used for 220 supply it maybe wrapped with Black tape to Identify wire or wires that are hot and not neutral, I saw that on quite few places.
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On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 9:33:49 PM UTC-4, TimR wrote:

As I understand it, not following the eqpt manufacturer's specs is a code violation. The eqpt is tested, certified, designed to work under certain conditions and if you install it otherwise, it's outside those boundaries.
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