changing an attic roof vent fan

Page 3 of 4  
On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 9:01:57 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

Let's assume you are correct...what have you accomplished but to show yourself as an anal retentive nut case. Since you beat everything to death...no one really cares... Yes, micky lives in his own little world...how different are you?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 10:52:59 AM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:

Apparently you care, because here *you* are again. I didn't revive this thread today, Micky did. As for how different I am, I provided several links to back up what I was saying, pics, videos, product links. And unlike Micky, if someone provides a relevant link, I'm willing to look at it and discuss it.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 9:58:51 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

Rarely do you leave things alone...*you* have to be right...to the point of beating it to death. Sometimes you have to accept, and get-on with it... We *all* have our quirks...you need to look at yours!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 11:08:42 AM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:

Just look at who's saying I need to "leave it alone". Here you are back again, hypocrite. And note *again* I didn't revive this thread. And you interject yourself anywhere. You started an attack on me in another thread, which was totally civil until you started in, not with relevant info, but just an attack on me. It's obvious you don'teven have experience with the question I posed. Nor do you apparently have anything to add about roof venting here either. So, speak for yourself, asshole.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 10:15:54 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

...what a burden to *have* to be right *all* the time. You must be under great mental pressure? Maybe a roof vent would be in order?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 26 May 2015 07:01:52 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

That may have been what you were talking about, but I don't see how it could have been your point.

How many attics with ridge vents have you been in? More to the point, how many attics with ridge vents in Baltimore have you been in? YOu haven't figured out yet that things are done differently in different places.

In the places you've been to, and even your word "typical" means there are instances that are atypical. Typical means what, 55%? Leaving up to 45% that are atypical.

It's not a judgment. It's a fact. If you don't believe that some ridge vents are installed without shingles on top, you are ignorant.

I'm not posting anything or everything. I'm saying not everyone puts cap shingles over ridge vents. Woudln't that be obvious even without getting out of bed? The cap shingles serve no practical purpose. They are all about appearance, and if it saves the builder an hour of a roofer's time that's more money than when a car maker uses a cheaper spring to save a dime.
This is such a stupid argument. It's typical of what Usenet is famous for. But neither of us is willing to give in

A typical way a politician avoids getting to the truth. No one is suggesting beliieving anything and everything, only believing that cap shingles are not always used on top of ridge vents. Quite a big difference from anything and everything, isn't it.

It's not unreasonable to ask but it's unreasonable to insist on it Not everything can be searched for, including
ridge vent without cap shingles.
If that gets hits that include all five words, the word "without" will be somewhere else in the text. In fact, the word "without" probably won't be on a page like you want. Instead it might say "you may or may not use cap shingles". So do you want me to search for "not" That will be in every page. Or the instructions will show how to install them even though not everyone does. Roofers are not children who need to be told what they don't need to do. They know what they can omit.

I refused to look only at a video. Not at any still links Videos take a long time to look at, especially with my sometimes problematic computer and DSL. It's not just your videos. I don't look at any videos unless I really want to see them.

And all it would show is that some people do things your way. It would not show that no one does it my way. So what is the point of looking at all?

Oh, that hadn't come up for a while. Okay, then there must be two types and two methods, since there little more reason to use cap shingles iwth rigid than with roll. It would cover the seams but they can't be seen from the ground anyhow. Maybe a ridge seam on an attic above a first floor can be seen by a window on a second floor, but seems aren't so ugly anyhow.

??

Yes you did, but you snipped it, so only those reading then will know.

I didn't say that. "you haven't seen it on the roof". You just made that up.

Big deal. Is that what this is about, that you're an expert on how it's done because you've done it?? Get it through your head that not everyone does it the same way.

That's no good reason to get nasty and vulgar.
I don't like how you've been behaving in this thread but I haven't done that.

I explained above why that would be hard to do, even though probably no ridge vent requires cap shingles.

You realize, I hope, that anything that goes over a 6" opening will also go over a 3 inch opening.

I don't snip parts of posts in the middle of disputes. But I just pointed out one place where you had snipped something you then disputed.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 11:15:01 AM UTC-4, micky wrote: I've never seen a ridge vent cutout that's 6" wide. Nor do

Still waiting for the link to that "Baltimore" product:
Comes in a roll plastic uses a 6" ridge opening doesn't use cap shingles lasts the life of the roof
I provided you links to the roll type products I'm familiar with. It has only 3 of the above properties.

No practical purpose other than keeping the rain out of the house with all the roll type products that I know about. And rain out with the common rigid style ones that come in sections too. Again, I provided you links. Who should we believe? The install instructions from the manufacturer or you? Hell, just take a look at the product in your hands and you'd know it's not designed to be exposed.
They

Yeah, you won't use google to find that miracle product you claim you have. Wow, how unreasonable of me.

Yes, you made the claim that you believe whatever someone says, as long as they don't have a history of lying. I thought that was pretty silly, but here we are.

Cap shingles are used on top of ridge vents. If you just looked at the few links I provided, you'd see that. But heh, better to curse the darkness, right?

Hell, that plastic roll type product without cap shingles, goes over a 6" gap, is all over Baltimore. And you can't find a link to it? Good grief.

It was in my very first posts and most of the subsequent ones too. Good grief.
Okay, then there must be two types

There is a huge reason to use them with the common, plastic ridge type ones. As I've explained about 4 times now, they are about 4 ft long. They butt together. Without cap shingles over them, rain goes in. Capiche? That's why the install instructions tell you that they are used with cap shingles. That, plus the fact that the plastic isn't designed to be left exposed. If you just pulled up an install sheet, instead of typing away, you'd see that.

Water pouring in through the seams isn't an issue?
Maybe a ridge seam on an attic above a first

Get it through your head that if the product you claim is on your roof exists, is w

I didn't get vulgar. I told you you're an ass.
2. informal a foolish or stupid person. "that ass of a young man"

No you just drone on, claiming you won't use Google.

You really, really are an imbecile. I provided you with links to the install instructions for the roll type. It's made by all the major manufacturers and every one of them requires that cap shingles go over it. It's not watertight, it's not designed to be fully exposed to the elements. It's a soft, spongy product. Who should we believe? You or OwnensCorning, GAF, etc?? Same thing for the plastic rigid type the install instructions say to put shingles on top. I've installed it. WTF is wrong with you?
Still waiting for a link to the ridge vent product you claim exists with these properties:
roll type plastic goes over a 6" ridge opening installs with no cap shingles lasts the life of the roof
Did I misrepresent anything there?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 26 May 2015 08:44:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

Don't wait. I'm not giving any link. If you don't believe me, that's okay. Neither of us have to trust the other. We don't have to borrow money from each other, or tell the other where the loot is hidden, either.

That's not what you said the last time.
You said Installs with no cap shingles.
My vent may well install either way, and if so it fulfills what you said last time but not what you said this time. Have you ever run for elective office?

Not you. One doesn't need shingles to keep the rain out of the house.

Sometimes.

Nonsense. I could only see that they are sometimes. And I don't dispute that they are sometimes.

You are a big source of grief. I never said "all over Baltimore"

I don't think so, but most importantly it wasn't in the only new one after being gone 6 days. You don't think I reread your old ones, do you? If 6 days isn't "a while" let me know what is.

Are you *trying* to look silly?

You have NEVER said they butt together. I read one brand that overlapped.
There would be some reason to use cap shingles if they butt together, but as I told you, I'm talking about a roll vent, one piece.

I read one pdf file and one is enough and though it said at one point to install cap shingles, it said nothing about what happened if one didn't. Nothing about not being designed to be left exposed. You've forgotten what you said or you're making stuff up now I think.

wouldn't pour in with overlapping sections.

As I said, it 's also no good reason to get nasty.

You've been vulgar so long you don't remember what's vulgar.

That's meaning 2.

So if you don't like it, stop replying.

Mine is. Rain landing next to it could splatter sideways and some water could** come in that way, but no water will come from rain landing on it. I think that's because it's shaped like a wide short mushroom, so that rain coming off the top drips off and doesn't run down the side where the openings are. **It could but I don't think it does. I've been in the attic during rains, and never noticed water spray from the ridge vent. OTOH, I have noticed it a bit from where the roof fan is.

*This* is what you said the last itme.

You know that if it goes over a 6" opening, it will go over a 3 inch opening, right?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 3:03:33 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

Of course I don't believe you because the product with the characteristics you claim, doesn't exist. If it did, we'd have seen that link by now.
..

Doesn't use cap shingles and installs with no cap shingles are the same thing. Good grief.

You don't even know WTF is up there. That's clear by now. You also claimed that your miracle attic with a fan is only a couple degrees warmer than ambient, when it's 80 - 100F outside. No one here can possibly believe that either.

You do need cap shingles over the roll type ridge vent material, which is what you claim you have. Or over the plastic rigid type too. If you'd just look at the links you'd see that. You really, really ought to just stop.

Sometimes? The install instructions I showed you they get installed with the products I cited all the time.
Here's a GAF install video:
https://www.gaf.com/Video_Library/0_scdyxj6m
GAF install instructions:
http://www.gaf.com/Residential_Roofing/Attic_Ventilation_Products/Cobra_Snow_Country/Cobra_Ridge_Vents_Detailed_Application_Instructions.pdf
Owens Corning:
http://www.owenscorning.com/NetworkShare/Roofing/10011650-VentSure-4-Foot-Strip-Ridge-Vent-Data-Sheet.pdf
Air Vent: http://www.airvent.com/pdf/installation/PeakPerformer1_11_install.pdf
Now where is *your* product sheet, install instructions or anything else for your miracle roll product?

You said that what I see here in NJ isn't representative of what you have in Baltimore. I see ridge vent products like the above all over NJ and they are installed with cap shingles. So, if what you say is true, it's reasonable to assume that they exist in Baltimore. That's what *you* said and implied.

How can anyone be so wrong? Let's recap. You first posted this:
"When I got my new roof, the first row of shingles went over the lip of the ridge vent. "
My very first response:
"Ridge vents are made of plastic in the case of rigid ones, or just roll material in the case of cheaper ones. I've never seen one that was not designed and spec'd to be installed with shingles covering it. For one thing, it would have to be continuous, one length and rain impermeable. The rigid ones come in 4ft lengths and just butt together, the joints are not watertight and not intended to be made watertight. The cheaper roll type are continuous, but they are foam type, flimsy, water would go right through them. Plus either type is not designed to be exposed to sun and the elements. Shingles are. Plus they would look like hell without cap shingles. IDK anyone that puts in a roof without cap shingles.
I provided you with videos, product links that are 100% consistent with the above. Oh, and let's not forget the fact that the *first row* of shingles is obviously not at the top. Nuff said about your roof knowledge.

From my first response to your post: "The rigid ones come in 4ft lengths and just butt together, the joints are not watertight and not intended to be made watertight. The cheaper roll type are continuous, but they are foam type, flimsy, water would go right through them. Plus either type is not designed to be exposed to sun and the elements. Shingles are."

Yes, a roll type that:
Is plastic Goes over a 6" cutout Doesn't use cap shingles Last the life of the roof.
Still waiting for the spec sheet, install sheet, *anything* on that mystery product.

You really, really need to just stop. You're clueless as to roof construction. They don't tell you what will happen if you don't install cap shingles because no one using those products is dumb enough to think a foam product 1" thick is going to be left exposed.

Same to you. And note that for guy that's complaining about the lack of civility, how the internet works, all you had to do from the beginning was provide us a link to the product you have. Almost everyone here does it, but supposedly it's just an unreasonable request. Of course the real reason is the product doesn't exist. So, then it degenerates, but who's fault is it?
Still waiting for a link to the ridge vent product you claim exists with these properties:

PS: I see you're still incapable of trimming posts. Figures.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 26 May 2015 15:32:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

You wouldn't see the link from me. I'm not giving links. And you've only given 2 or 3, so I don't think your last statement follows.

No, they're not.

Well I've never measured it. maybe some day I will.

No you don't.

A) There are more one set of install instructions in this world. No reason to assume they all say that. B) When instructions do say Install cap shingles, what they mean is that if you are going to install cap shingles, this is the point at which you should do so. C) Even if for the sake of argument we assumed that all instructions said one should install CS, we all know that tradesmen violate such instructions frequently, often with no problem.

When you negate the sentence that requires changing all of it.
Anyhow, this iis what I said "More to the point, how many attics with ridge vents in Baltimore have you been in? " I asked a question. I didn't make any affirmative statement at all. I've never claimed to know what they have in most of Baltimore.

They do exist in Baltimore, but I never said "all over Baltimore" and I never implied it.

Okay. I take it back. You said in your first post over a week ago now that sometimes they butt together. Gling out of town tends to make one forget the local problems. That's why people go out of town during vacations.
And I probably didn't pay much attention I guess since my vent is one piece. Any time spent discussing stiff vents in more than one piece is not productive in deciding how roll vents are installed.

Keep waiting. I'm not looking and so I won't find anything.

"All you have to do"! That's plenty. More than I'm willing to do.

When they feel like it. Not when someone who ought to take his word for what his own house looks like tries to pressure him into it.

That's not so.

Yours.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 1:02:19 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:

Everyone here can see that you have no link to your miracle, mystery product because it doesn't exist. Simple.

Then explain the difference there, idiot.

Another ever changing Micky story that flies in the face of physics.

The provide us with the link to such a product. Show us the install instructions Micky. If it exists, that would have happened by now.

Then find the instructions for the plastic, roll type product that you claim you have that doesn't need cap shingles. It's obvious to everyone reading this by now that you've searched desperately and can't find it because it doesn't exist.

Idiot. They don't say *if*, they say you do it. It's an essential step of the installation process using those products. The roll type is a flimsy, soft, plastic. It's not designed to be exposed to the elements. Ask any roofer. Hell, even a child could figure that out by looking at it, holding it in their hands. And if you leave off the cap shingles, what exactly covers up all the nail heads that you drive into it to fasten it?

OMG. Now you're actually advocating installing these products incorrectly? And this isn't some minor nit. This would be a DISASTER.

It's clear by now that you don't even know what you have on your own roof. You just make crap up. You also told us in this thread that your attic is only a couple degrees over ambient, even when it's 80 -100F outside. Miracle attic too.

Exist in Baltimore, all over Baltimore, who gives a rat's ass? The obvious point is you claim they are there, that there are regional differences. So, just show us a link to the product.

Then don't restart a thread, or if you're going to, at least figure out what's going on so you don't make an ass out of yourself.

Fine, let's just stay with the roll type. So, just show us *one* link, any link, to a roll type ridge vent product that doesn't require cap shingles over it. Install instructions, video, anything. Very simple request. We all want to learn. If you're right, just show us it, instead of droning on.
Still waiting for a link to the ridge vent product you claim exists with these properties:
roll type plastic goes over a 6" ridge opening installs with no cap shingles
PS: I see you're still incapable of learning to trim posts. Figures.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 26 May 2015 15:32:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

I explained that already.
But we're repeating ourselves now, so you can have the last word on everything else.
Nothing snipped to keep a record of your words.
Micky .

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 5:40:09 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

No, you didn't explain it. You just said, "I won't give a link..." Obviously it's because you can't, what you claim doesn't exist.

Editing posts so people can easier follow them doesn't effect having a record. The previous post is right here in the thread. Good grief.
I also note that you can't answer the simple question that I've asked several times now about your alleged miracle ridge vent product. You claim it's roll type and no cap shingles are used. So, what exactly covers all the nail heads that are used to fasten it down? All the roll type I've seen, all the roll type that I've provided links to, clearly use *cap shingles* to perform that function. That along with protecting the ridge vent material from the elements, just like the rest of the roof deck is protected by and covered with shingles.
Still waiting for a link to the ridge vent product you claim exists with these properties:
roll type plastic goes over a 6" ridge opening installs with no cap shingles
PS: I see you're still incapable of learning to trim posts. Figures.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In wrote:

I was referring to the OP possibly just having a new ridge vent installed on his existing roof -- not doing a new roof. So, "Shingles, tar paper, plywood" wouldn't be involved.

I think what you meant was that on your new roof there is a row of "shingles" -- called "capping" -- on top of the ridge vent. That's not the same as saying that there is a row of shingles that goes over the lip of the ridge vent.
If you do a Google search for ridge vents and then click on Google "Images", you'll see tons of images of ridge vents and none of them have shingles that go over the lip of the ridge vent.
Also, here is a good YouTube video about installing a ridge vent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umskAykgVak

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

The preference some show for ridge venting is a lot like the preference first aid teachers are now showing for heart compressions in place of CPR. The second letter in CPR stood for pulmano- and meant blowing into someone's mouth to make his lungs inflate with comparitively fresh air.
But after AIDS, a lot of people were afraid to do that, so they started pushing CR, heart compression only. Not because the breatingh part didn't help but in recognition that too many people wouldn't do it.
Similarly they've given up on roof fans, because people weren't buying them. They need electricity to the attic, they need a hole in the roof, and they need new motors once in a while, and for many people an electrician to put in the new motor.
Ridge vents don't need any maintenance, because there's nothing to do to them (except maybe replace them when the roof is replaced, every 20 or 30 years) Soffitt vents may not need any maintenance, although mine, with the roof fan in use, and the cottonwood trees in bloom did get their screening blocked with cottonwood cotton. Took 10 or 15 years for the tree(s) to grow up but after that had to be cleared every 4 or 6 years.
It's also true that the part of the ridge vent close to the fan (if the fan is in the roof and not the gable) can allow air in that will only go a few feet and get blown out again. Probably a good idea to block a few feet of roof vent nearest the roof fan. But I didn't do that and I know there was planty of air flow through the entire attic because of hte cottonwood cotton that clogged the soffitt screens. (Now that the nearest and maybe the only cottonwood tree has fallen down, probably won't have that problem anymore. )
We once had one poster years ago with a roof fan who said it didn't help, but everyone I've talked to, including the guy yesterday who sold me the motor, said it helped a lot.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 14 May 2015 07:05:00 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

The problem with "attic fan" is that people don't know if one is talking about the fan in the floor of the attic or the top of the attic. That's why I use the phrase roof fan.

Huh? Of course it creates negative pressure. That's how it blows the hot air out.

One should make sure he doesn't have such holes in his ceilings and if he does, seal them.
Hot air rises whether there is a fan or not.
WRT trap door to the attic, I put foam around the opening and fiberglass above the wood just to insulate the opening regardless of the fan. I've never had an electric outlet in the ceiling. And I don't have any can lights on the second floor, but people with one-story houses are more likely to have can lights on the first floor.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 8:43:11 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

A fan in the attic floor would be a whole house fan.

OK, make that if it's not size right, it creates too much negative pressure. If you try to pull 10 lbs of crap through a 5 lb hole, you instead wind up sucking air out of the air conditioned house. With a ridge vent, it's self limiting, it can't create any significant negative pressure. Put a big honking attic fan in, with inadequate soffit venting, and it will create significant negative pressure.

Yes, you can try to do that to the extent possible. But there is always going to be some air infiltration. Plumbing lines go through walls, they have vent lines running up through the attic, leaving air channels around them, etc. It's not so easy to identify and fix all those. In the typical house, especially older houses, you don't have airtight seals around plumbing, electric outles, especially on inside walls. And if you don't and put a big honking attic fan in, thinking it's just going to move air in the attic, you can wind up sucking air out of the house too.

Yes, but with a fan in the attic pulling it, it can move more air that without one.

I have about 25 recessed lights in mine.
And I don't have any

About 15 of mine are on the second floor/cathedral ceiling.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

My old motor and my new one are both labeled thermally protected.
I think they have a self-resetting thermal switich. I turned off the power to the fan for a while and turned it back on and I could see the fan blade "spinning" at about 1 rotation / 30 seconds. But no overheating.
The last 5 motors all stopped spinning but no fires!

They do push attic ventilation, active and passive, as a way to pretect the roof, but the advantage I get from it is that the cooler attic doesn't radiate heat into the 2nd floor.
Before the fan, during the summer, it was too hot to sleep upstairs. Even though I had full width soffitt vents on both front and back and a full width ridge vent.
I didn't even go upstairs when I got home from work, I slept in the basement, and got new clothes upstairs the next morning.
Of course if one uses AC, the AC hides all this, but it runs longer and one has to pay extra to cool off the top floor of the house. The fan uses electricity too, 3.5 amps, 1/10 HP. But you still get a much bigger bang for the buck.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Passive roof vents do not vent hot air near as well as thermostaticaly controlled fan. When mine went out I noticed an increase in my electric bill.
Andy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

When I installed such a fan in the roof, I noticed a large increase in the electric bill and no other benefit, so I shut them down. Now they won't start up, and the cheap plastic cover has become brittle and has been ripped off by raccoons trying to get into the attic. I am replacing them with chimney style passive vents, which are made of powder covered galvanized steel, which should be raccoon proof.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.