changing an attic roof vent fan

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Shingles, tar paper, plywood

When I got my new roof, the first row of shingles went over the lip of the ridge vent.
Also a ridge vent doesnt' do much good without adequate entry points for the air. And I think it's unlikely entry points were origially installed if no exit method was also installed. Maybe there are exceptions to that, but I don't how many exceptions there would be. Or why they woudl do it.
I've seen soffitts with occasional 9x18" screened openings., but I think that isn't nearly enough . I have a townhouse about 21 feet wide and 40 feet deep, and it has 21 feet of soffitt venting in the front and the same in the back, 8 or 10 inches wide. That would be enough, except that wasn't enough either. As I've said, the 2nd floor would be so hot in the summer that I wouldnt' even go upstairs. It had 8 inches of the fiberglass, and I'm sorry I didn't put in another 8 inches as recommended, but I think the effect would not have been nearly as great as the fan. After I got the fan I slept upstairs all summer every year and only turned on the AC 8 to 20 days a summer.
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On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 9:11:34 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

That would be the last row of shingles. The first row is at bottom. And AFAIK, the ridge vent typically goes over the shingles, then cap shingles go over the ridge vent.
Also a ridge vent doesnt' do much good without adequate entry points for

Around here house had soffit vents going back to at least the 70s. Before that, many just had gable vents in either end.

I think you're wrong. Having adequate insulation is going to do more to keep the house cool than whether you have an attic fan. I think you'll find that building science folks agree.

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On Fri, 15 May 2015 18:44:04 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

Oh, yeah, good point. I had one eye covered.

Not always. I see a lot of ridge vents with nothing on top of them.

But these are houses with ridge vents or gable vents, right, not with no output vents.

Given how hot it was with 8 inches, I'm dubious that it would have been much cooler with 8 more. Insulation slows down the transmission of heat but unless it's a thermos bottle with a vacuum, it doesn't stop it.

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On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 10:14:45 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

I've never seen one. Ridge vents are made of plastic in the case of rigid ones, or just roll material in the case of cheaper ones. I've never seen one that was not designed and spec'd to be installed with shingles covering it. For one thing, it would have to be continuous, one length and rain impermeable. The rigid ones come in 4ft lengths and just butt together, the joints are not watertight and not intended to be made watertight. The cheaper roll type are continuous, but they are foam type, flimsy, water would go right through them. Plus either type is not designed to be exposed to sun and the elements. Shingles are. Plus they would look like hell without cap shingles. IDK anyone that puts in a roof without cap shingles.

Yes. I've never seen a roof yet with no output vents at all. I'm sure there is one somewhere, but it's not common, so why are we talking about it?

8 inches of insulation in an attic isn't much at all. Every building science authority that has data that I've ever seen says in your case, more insulation is going to do more than adding a powered fan or otherwise increasing the attic ventilation.
And again, what I'm saying is that most of the experts today have come to the conclusion that a continuous ridge vent, together with soffit vents, are a better solution than a powered fan. Now, if you look at an attic with no ventilation, or very limited ventilation, and the choice is just leave it or add a properly sized fan together with adequate soffit venting, then I agree the fan will help. But so would adding a continuous ridge vent. And if you have only 8" of insulation, adding more insulation is going to be the even better solution, with a good payback because it helps not only in the summer, but with heat loss in winter too.
Here's some explanation of the issues. There are also actual studies and technical papers if you want to look for them.
http://www.energysmartcustomhomes.com/2011/08/are-attic-fans-good-idea.html
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/fans-attic-do-they-help-or-do-they-hurt
Here's an interesting one, Georgia has banned AC attic fans in new construction:
http://www.energyvanguard.com/blog-building-science-HERS-BPI/bid/43463/Power-Attic-Ventilators-Banned-by-New-Georgia-Energy-Code
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On Sat, 16 May 2015 05:23:50 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

Yes, that's what I'm talking about.

The one on my house now, and the previous one, for examples, are neither foam, nor flimsy, nor does water go right though it.
The first one lasted at least 25 years and was still fine, was only replaced because I got a new roof. It comes rolled up but the plastic is thick enough, maybe 1/8 or 3/16", there is no foam involved, and given that rain doesn't weight much, it's as sturdy as steel would be.
It was smooth on the inside.
The current ridge vent is about 10 years old and may be identical.

You must not have seen what they use here.

It looks fine. It's a black strip that runs along the ridge. Maybe it's the difference between women's stockings with seams and without seams.

They are all over the place here.

You've never seen a ridge vent without cap shingles either. IIRC, our house in Indianapolis had no output vents. If so, I'm sure there were many others like it. (Of course by now, the roof has been redone.) As to around here, I haven't paid much attention, but I plan to as of now.
BTW, not in reply to your post but WRT the thread as a whole, the OP already has a fan, and all he needs is a new motor, so a lot of the objections various people have made, while they are true or arguable for other people, don't apply to the OP.
TimR, another thing to check when the fan doesn't work is the thermostat, but since your fan came to a screeching halt, I don't think that applies to you. I set my fan up the way the instructions sugggested, with a switch to turn it off when the thermostat says On, and a switch to turn it on when the thermostat says Off. So one flip of the switch bypasses the thermostat
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On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 3:32:45 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

OK, so it's thin enough that it comes rolled up. I doubt anything that fits that bill is going to have the durability that roof shingles would have and be capable of performing like cap shingles would. But for the sake of argument, let's say I went to install your product. I have a 2" slot cut at the peak. Your roll product goes over that. How exactly does it get fastened, made watertight, to the roof? I understand how the typical ridge vents work. They get nailed on. Then cap shingles get applied *over* it, similar to how they would go on a regular roof. The *cap shingles* cover the nails that hold the ridge vent and the cap shingles make it watertight, provide protection to the roof, provide the durability, just like the other shingles all over the roof.

So show us a link to the ridge vent products like you're talking about. Like I said, all the ridge vent products that I've seen are intended to go under cap shingles, be covered, protected by cap shingles, and they are not, in themselves, watertight or intended to be left exposed. I believe from TomR's post, he's on the same page. Maybe they exist, but so far, I don't understand how in the world it would go on, be watertight, etc.

Roofs in general without cap shingles or just roofs with ridge vents without cap shingles?
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On Sat, 16 May 2015 15:58:45 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

2"? It's more like 5 or 6.

It's nailed to the roof at each side, either over or under (I forget which, and one could probably do it either way**) the regular shingles. Maybe water would drain better with the ridge vent on top of the top layer of shingles, but the same thing could be said about flashing, and yet shingles are often on top of flashing.
**I knew a girl who wore her panties outside of her panty hose.

Maybe we'r e talking about different things, although I don't see how. You use the term cap shingles. I presume you mean shingles at the very top. How would they cover the nails that are nailed in hold on the sides of the ridge vent.
The ridge vent cross secition is like an omega that has been squashed somewhat flat. The top is in the middle but the part nailed down is at the bottom on either side. The vents are between the top and the bottom, in the vertical walls. How could one attach cap shingles to the top. If you try nailing them in, the ridge vent top will recede with every hammer blow. Maybe it will spring back out after each one, but no one will be doing this anyhow.
If you mean attaching shingles to the bottom, horizontal part of the omega, that part lies flat on the roof and I'm no longer sure that it's below the regular shingles. I might be on top of them. Can't tell from the inside and not sure I can tell from the outside either.
As an aside, is this what you mean by foam? It doesn't say it's foam but it looks in the picture like foam? I've never seen this before: http://www.essentialhardware.com/gaf-materials-2005-ridge-vent-black-188247.html?fee &fep424&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google&gclid=Cj0KEQjw1duqBRDPlLKsuJCUiuABEiQAxgHwJ9ggbtSwLcwmHnAqWiBmxav6kmjjQUNMBmxQRJNZ3eoaAvxk8P8HAQ

I looked a little but found mostly aluminum. No time to look further . I'm going away tomorrow. by 8, at least by 10, and for sure by noon, and I have to do my laundry, pack, etc. I'll be gone almost a week. (I'm taking a laptop with me, with a newsreader, but if busy enough, I won't have time for Usenet.

I said before, there is no need for added protection. The last ridge vent was just fine after 25 years. Probably could have gone another 25. This one looks just like it.

Well the rain doesn't get in directly, but rain that lands on the roof near the opening can splatter so that a little of it gets in the vents, which are on the side. Only a little because it has to bounce uphill to reach the opening. That's how it's designed. There may be other designs that avoid that, but in my unfinished attic, I've never found any damage from a little mist.
I've been up there when it's raining and I don't remember if the mist came from the ridge vent or from the roof fan opening, or both. It was very little, and when I'm not there to land on, it has to fall about 7 feet. I'm not sure it doesn't evaporate most of the time before it lands on anything.

The latter. I thought you were talking about the latter. I too don't know anyone who puts in a roof withOUT a ridge vent who doesn't use cap shingles at the crest of the roof, but with the ridge vent, there is no need.

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wrote:

And with an aluminum ridge vent, it definitely won't spring back.
If you mean nailing cap shingles to the roof on either side of the ridge vent, then won't that cover all the openings in the ridge vent?

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On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 10:04:08 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

I've never seen a ridge vent with a 6" cutout in the roof. Again, please show us a product with install instructions that spec a 5 or 6" cutout.

And how do you then make all those exposed nail punctures watertight? Again, never seen that. On a roof, all the nails are covered with SHINGLES and that's what makes them watertight. You don't nail metal to a roof with nails, all along the peak and leave the nails exposed. You'd have to have some system for covering them up.

It's not an issue of draining. It's an issue of driving nails through the roofing materials and leaving the nail heads exposed with no shingles covering them.

Because with the ridge vents I've seen, the nails holding the ridge vent get covered over by the cap shingles.

The ridge vent gets nailed along it's edges. The cap shingles go over top. The plastic is heavy, durable enough, to allow the necessary nails to be driven. Here's an example:
http://www.airvent.com/pdf/installation/ShingleVentII-install.pdf
And of course people are doing it, just look at the install instructions. Hell, I drive down the street, I see plenty of ridge vents, covered with cap shingles. I went out for roofing quotes 2 years ago, 4 roofers. All spec'd ridge vents where cap shingles go over them. Good grief, try google.
Here's a video, skip to the end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU8wQyoevPw


Yes, that's one example of the roll type. Again, cap shingles go over it.

It took me 1 minute to find the ShingleVent II product, pics, install instructions. There are plenty of pics of the ridge vent products I've described. Owens Corning, GAF, AirVent. HD, Lowes, Roofing supply houses sell them.
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On Sun, 17 May 2015 05:24:21 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

You can't see the cutout. It's underneath.

You'll have to take my word for it. I'm leaving in an hour.

I haven't been on the roof for five years and didn't pay attention to that when I was there. I don't know what is on top on the sides of the ridge vent, -- I only brought that up to further describe the situation -- but NOTHING is on top of the vent.
Why don't you provide evidence that anyone puts shingles on top of a ridge vent, in the middle of it, and not just on the sides? Okay, you did that below, but it doesn't contradict what I've said, what you've been vainly trying to contradict for two or three posts now. The pdf file below doesn't claim it's the only way to do things.

How can they be cap shingles if they don't go on TOP of the ridge. I see from the pdf file below that indeed they do in the case described go on the top. Well, be advised that it's not always done this way.
I never said it was always done without cap shingles. It's YOU who insists they are always used. How you can imagine you know what is always done, I don't know. Get a grip on yourself.

I never suggested this didn't exist, until you couldn't accept that what I see doesn't exist. "Hell, I drive down the street. I see plenty of ridge vents, NOT covered with cap shingles"

Stop your annoying "good grief". It's a smarmy way to put down the other poster. Here's a direct way: You're not as smart as you think you are. I don't have to find out if it's done your way sometimes or not. If you say it is, it probably is and I don't care if it is or isn't. It's you who refuses to believe what I see every day, You're like this all the time.

I don't normally watch videos. They take too long and I'm leaving in 50 minutes.

Well as I said,l that is NOT what I'm talking about.

I suspect most or all can be used successfully without cap shingles and they will be just as watertight. The cap shingles are used for appearance, and there's no reason for appearance's sake there can't be a black line along the ridge. A matter of style, just like seams or no seams on women's stockings. Just like pin stipes or not on a man's suit or stripes or not on a tie. Or pin stripes or racing stripes on a car.
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On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 8:52:03 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:

Then how do you know what size it is? Good grief. I've looked at install sheets for many products and I've been up in many attics. Never seen one with a 6" width ridge vent opening. At that width, the product would have to be durable enough that you can stand on it, otherwise there would be risk of going right through it.

Sorry, no, I won't. I found you install instructions and a video for the products I'm talking about. Took me a few mins. If you're so damn busy, why are you here typing away?

Good grief. You start off asking why I don't provide evidence and then in the next sentence you acknowledge that I already provided it? I sure did, install instructions and a separate video too.
You're the one constantly denying that the two very common types, both of which use cap shingles, exist. I see them every day. It's what 4 roofing contractors all proposed for my roof. I have yet to see the type you're talking about. I provided you a link to the product, install instructions, even a video. And I pointed out what I would think would be the issue with a product that had no cap shingles over it, ie it would have to have some kind of sealing system and not rely on exposed nail heads to hold it in. That's all that I'm saying and questioning. I showed you the types I'm familiar with and talking about. You've shown us nothing......

Is there something wrong with you? This is the second time you've done this. You start off with "they don't go on TOP of the ridge", then next sentence you acknowledge that they do. JC, it's right there in the install instructions and the video I provided.

Let's recap about who needs to get a grip:
Micky:
"The first one lasted at least 25 years and was still fine, was only

Trader: "So show us a link to the ridge vent products like you're talking about. Like I said, all the ridge vent products that I've seen are intended to go under cap shingles, be covered, protected by cap shingles, and they are not, in themselves, watertight or intended to be left exposed. I believe from TomR's post, he's on the same page. Maybe they exist, but so far, I don't understand how in the world it would go on, be watertight, etc. "
I didn't say they absolutely don't exist. I said I find it hard to believe that something that comes in a roll, goes over your ridge opening, is intended to be left there, without cap shingles. Now that you've also stated that the width of the opening is 5 or 6 inches, I'm even more skeptical. A plastic, rolled up product is going to cover a 6" roof gap? And asking for a link to the product you're talking about, the install instructions, why is that so hard? Good grief.

I see, so that's how you operate? Because I can't accept what you're describing, without even a product link, then you turn to denying the existence of the common product type that I gave you links for, install instructions, even videos of? How's that working for you? .
"Hell, I drive down the street. I see

That's because you frequently come in here full of BS. You claimed you have a ridge vent product on your house that comes in a roll, it goes over a 5 or 6" opening and it does not get covered by cap shingles. I'm still waiting for a link to that product. If you're so smart, provide us with that link. If you had just done that in the first post or two, we wouldn't be here.

I suspect you don't look at or watch much of at all, which explains why you're an ass and having so much trouble here.

You said your ridge vent was the roll type.

You really know nothing about the subject and are just further embarrassing yourself.
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On Sun, 17 May 2015 06:36:54 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

Because I'm in the attic looking up at it! What is underneath from the top is first from the bottom.
Good grief. I've

Not if no one stood on it.

I don't have to find anything to prove what I say. I have my house and all my neighbors' houses to prove it. If you don't want to take my word, you can stay ignorant.

Yes, you did and that supports that your answer is right some of the time, but it doesn't mean my answer isn't also right some of the time.

Now there are TWO common types? I never heard of the second one before. But if there are, that means there are ThREE tyopes, your two and my one.

Haven't y ou noticed that what part of the country you live in has an effect on what contractors do?

Before the internet, people accepted another's word for what they said, unless they had a history of being dishonest. If "no cap shingles" were likely to appear in a webpage that showed how to do it with no cap shingles, it woudl be worth searching, but what is not there is usually not listed in any webpage or set of instructions.

No, It's much m ore likely that there is something wrong with you.

OH, good. It's only hard to believe. Trust me, you can believe it.
Cap shingles would add nothing but decoration to the houses here. Instead of a 6 or 8" wide black line, there woudl be a line the same color of the shingles. It's a 2-story house. I can't even see the roof from the back yard, and only from some locations in front of the house. Usually I'm looking at kids or neighbors or my bushes or the sidewalk, and I don't even notice what the roof looks like.

I don't like googling. I don't expect anyone to have noticed, but I hardly ewver give helpfu.l urls to people who post questions. Only if it's really easy to find or to make a novel point. But I've done enough to make this point.

You should be a politician the way you misdescribe what happened. When you refused to believe what I said, on my word, I no longer accepted what you said on your word. That's perfectly fair. So you went to the trouble to find a url with your method, but I never said I woudl go to the same trouble, and I'm not going to do it.
I've been away from Sunday morning to Friday night. I have lots of posts and email to read, and lots of things I came across on my trip to check out. I did some of that Saturday, but i'm far from done.

Fine. I made my point, more than once. That's enough.

I sure think it comes in a roll. I don't see any seams from the inside and I never saw seams from the outside, on the old one or the new one. But I wasn't on the roof or watching when he put it down.

What does being smart have to do with finding a link?

"ass"? Now you're getting nasty. I guess you don't like when someone doesn't knuckle under to you. Grow up .

Do you think there is only one roll type? Or that the ability to put cap shingles on a roll type ridge vent means they have to be used? Well they don't.

You should be embarrassed by your posts.
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I removed the fan and motor from the attic this weekend, and I learned some thing else I didn't know.
It is a six blade fan so there is no way to slide the blades past the spide r, I had to take the spider off the housing.
This was not particularly difficult, except for getting my head and hands i nto the space between rafters or whatever you call them.
I just removed the 7/16 nuts and slid it out.
AND THEN! that is when I learned something new. The bolts go through the housing from the outside, and they are not captive. When you pull the spid er off, you hear the tink and roll as the bolts fall off the outside and ro ll around the roof. Obviously replacing this will take two people, one out side on the roof and one in the attic.
I tried Home Depot without success for a fan motor, so I haven't finished y et.
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wrote:

Sorry to hear that. My blade may have only 5 fins, I'm not sure. I"ll try to look next time I'm in the attic.
When you have a helper and put the bolts back in, maybe you can add a lockwasher and another nut and tighten that down a lot so if there's a next time, you can do it all from the outside. OTOH, that will make the brackets start a quarter inch or more closer to the center and maybe that will cause a problem.
My brackets are probably mounted with rubber bushings to keep noise from going from the motor to the housing to the roof, and the brackets dangle somewhat when not connected to each other. So they could be moved around in order to get the blade out, past the brackets. Getting it back in was a lot easier.
I guess someday the rubber in the bushings will wear out, but so far so good.

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That sounds like a really good idea, I'll try it if it will fit.
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wrote:

Of course I meant do it all from the inside, but I'm sure you knew that.

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mething else I didn't know.

der, I had to take the spider off the housing.

into the space between rafters or whatever you call them.

e housing from the outside, and they are not captive. When you pull the sp ider off, you hear the tink and roll as the bolts fall off the outside and roll around the roof. Obviously replacing this will take two people, one o utside on the roof and one in the attic.

yet.
I never had to do it that way. I usually rotate the blade and bend the bra ckets and am able to get the motor with blade out. On one occasion I loose ned the set screw on the blade and was able to get it off and let the motor slide down, but that was more work that way.
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On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 7:55:12 AM UTC-4, John G wrote:

something else I didn't know.

pider, I had to take the spider off the housing.

ds into the space between rafters or whatever you call them.

the housing from the outside, and they are not captive. When you pull the spider off, you hear the tink and roll as the bolts fall off the outside an d roll around the roof. Obviously replacing this will take two people, one outside on the roof and one in the attic.

ed yet.

rackets and am able to get the motor with blade out. On one occasion I loo sened the set screw on the blade and was able to get it off and let the mot or slide down, but that was more work that way.
The set screw on mine is past the blades, there is no way to reach it witho ut removing it. It's on a rather large cylinder, looks like it may functio n like a flywheel.
I did look for a way to get it past the bracket but six blades made it too hard. A three blade fan might have been workable.
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wrote:

On mine too. I thought about reversing that, but the blade is very very very asymmetric front to back and I'm not going to secodn guess the designer

I still have to call the motor company, to ask about removing the plastic layer. This at least reminds me to put it on my to-do list. I'm not going to do it unless the motor comes loose.
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On Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 5:00:17 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

Which was precisely my point. That's how I see the cutouts too and I've never seen a ridge vent cutout that's 6" wide. Nor do any of the install instructions for the products I've looked at spec a cut anywhere near that size. About 1" on either side is typical.

I'll leave it for others to judge who's ignorant. You can choose to believe anything and everything that someone posts on the internet, if you want to. Any rational person can see problems with that approach. I don't think asking for a simple link is so unreasonable. I've provided many here in this thread. At least some of which you refuse to even look at. Go figure.

Not just now, I clearly described two types from my first posts. There are roll type products and rigid plastic type products that come in sections. That is what I've seen.

Baloney.

It shows.

No it's not fair, because I gave you links to real products to support what I said. And I haven't misrepresented what you've said.
So you went to

Sure, nuff said.

Oh, I see, so now you *think* it comes in a roll, you haven't seen it on the roof, but I'm unreasonable to be questioning it and not just taking your word that it's fact. Good grief. I've not just seen the product I'm talking about from inside the attic, I've installed it.

If you were smart, you'd know.

I just don't like it when someone refuses to even look at the info that I provide and just keeps droning on.

OK, so provide us with the link to the roll type ridge vent material that you have that doesn't require cap shingles.
Still waiting for the link to the ridge vent product you claim exists with these properties:
roll type plastic goes over a 6" ridge opening installs with no cap shingles lasts the life of the roof
Did I misrepresent anything there?
PS: It would be good if you could learn to edit posts.
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