CFL Brightness Time

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Reading some of the complaints about CFL turn-on brightness got my curiosity going so I retrieved my old lumens meter (about 40-50 years old) and checked some of my many CFLs. All figures rounded to nearest whole number. Basement-80% of full output upon energizing. Cool area. Outdoor-68% of full output upon energizing. 22 degrees F. Kitchen-90%, Master Bath 92%, Desk Lamp 92%, Family Room fans w/5 CFLs each 90%, Garage 85%. Time to full output less than 60 seconds in interior, 75 in garage, about 100 in basement and 200-250 outdoor. Other similar locations seem to be about equal to the tested areas. Seems as if many of the complaints about CFL brightness may be misperceived.
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On 1/8/2012 9:00 AM, Pete Markum wrote:

Maybe some folks find 60 seconds too long when it only takes you 15 seconds to find the shirt you want in your closet
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On 1/8/2012 9:34 AM, RBM wrote:

Same in bathroom. Plus frequent turning on and off of the cfl's for these brief uses shortens their lives considerably negating any cost or energy savings.
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On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 09:40:30 -0500, Frank

92% of full brightness and 100% in less than 60 seconds is more than adequate for bathroom. I have 10 over vanity and 4 general use in bathroom. Switched probably 8-10 tomes per day. One failure in 7 years.
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On 1/8/2012 10:11 AM, Pete Markum wrote:

It's wonderful that you enjoy them. I also enjoy them in selected locations, for selected purposes. In general I don't like having them forced upon me. There are just some instances where I prefer an old fashioned 100 watt incandescent lamp. Next you'll be telling us that the unpleasant light emitted from CF's is also a misperception.
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On 1/8/2012 9:24 AM, RBM wrote:

So use a halogen bulb. It is even incandescent. And can give you the same lumens at a lower wattage.
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On 1/8/2012 11:02 AM, bud-- wrote:

For certain things, I love halogen bulbs. We've been using 75 watt R-30 halogens in kitchen recessed lighting jobs. Beautiful bright, white light. It's great for a kitchen, but in my opinion, too bright for living room lighting, where I prefer a standard 100 watt incandescent reflector flood, which are no longer being made. Other types of halogen lamps are great too, but IMO too many issues with overheating and burning out sockets. I'd really love a rough service halogen lamp for my drop light.
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Each has it's own color. You can find one with your tastes.
Greg
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I agree with your RBM. I have seen a lot of CFLs and I have yet to see one that has light quality even close to an incandewscent. Maybe some people perceive the light quality differently, but I can tell you of the people I know and interact with personally, all say that CFL light quality is inferior. I'd take a blind test anytime to pick the cfl light out of an assortment of cfl and incandescents.
And again, not saying they aren't good for many applications. But for reading, in my kitchen, for certain decorative fixtures, CFLs have inferior light and are not acceptable.
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On Jan 8, 1:38pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

That experience is similar to mine. The few that have lasted a long time have been the open spiral type. But I just had one of those go in the garage. It lasted about 3 years. I've had incandscents that lasted many times that.
Overall you simply don't know what you're getting. It's a crap shoot. I haven't found any consistency where I could say one brand lasted and another didn't. Or that one brand got to high output a lo faster than another.
As for the reported 80 or 90% of full output of light instantly when they are turned on, I don't have a meter here to measure, but if I did I would. Either 80-90% isn't what you would think it is, or I haven't run across one of those yet. The worst ones I have you can't even see enough for the first 45secs or so to do what you need to do. The others would appear to me to give out about half output within 30 secs or so.
For me the bottom line isn't what the meter says, it's what I can use and put up with. I think it would be very useful if the OP would tell us which specific bulbs got to 80 and 90% at turn on. Next time I go to buy one, I'd try it. That has been one of my main complaints all along. There is no consistency and no rating system to tell you how they perform. There should be a rating where they state the time to get to say 80% of output. And the ones that are dimmable should clearly state to what equiv wattage they are dimmable. Otherwise we are buying a pig in a poke.
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On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 08:59:54 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

Since virtually every brand you buy is made in China you are pretty much getting a pig in a poke no matter what you buy. Quality control is virtually non-existant - and in a box of 10 you are liable to get 1 good one, one that won't light, one that dies within 4 hours, and 7 that start slow, flicker, and generally just drive you nuts.
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But at 92%, if you can't find your shirt you have other problems. See an opthomologist.
That 15 second complaint is not a valid excuse, it is just a way of being stubborn about something different. If you had to wait 60 seconds for any light at all, I'd agree and I'd never use the CFL, but the fact is, you get enough light to function.
Both our bathrooms have CFLs. When I get up during the night to pee, there is an LED night light and that is all I need. Don't tell me you'd miss the toilet at 92% output if you turned on a CFL.
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On 1/8/2012 10:27 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

My point is that I don't need you to tell me what I like, or I need, or what's enough for me. Thank you, but I like to make these decisions for myself.
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Except he never said that. What he said was:
"Maybe some folks find 60 seconds too long when it only takes you 15 seconds to find the shirt you want in your closet "
Now maybe your experience has been different, but I've had lots of situations where waiting for the CFLs to put out enough light is an inconvenience. An inconvenience that at least some of us would rather not put up with.
As an example, I have CFLs in my garage. In cool weather, it takes them a good minute to put out close to full output. In the cold of winter, it's even worse. Am I sure it's exactly a min? No. Does it matter? No. Whatever the time is, like RBM, I find it unaccepatble for many applications.
Now, do you really think I've been annoyed by those 4 bulbs in my garage for the last 6 years or so only because I have a bug up my ass about CFLs? Or do you think I have consistently found this to be a real problem? Like when I go into the garage to find a tool under the workbench, for example? Do I put up with it? Yes. But do I like it, is it equal to an incandescent? Hell no. The only reason I have them in there is because sometimes I forget to turn them off and I could have 4 150W bulbs burning for 2 days. With a CFL, at least the energy used is a lot less.
Now the CFL proponents would say the newer bulbs are better. But I've bought some in the last year that have been slow to light up too. Others have been faster. I'm not alone here. CL reported similar experiences. Now, what would you champions of CFLs fit all have me do. Go out and keep buying different ones until I find the best I can? How cost effective is that? Wouldn't it be better for some honesty? Honesty on the part of the manufacturers by putting a spec on the box that says how long it takes to reach 80% of output. Honesty on the part of proponents by recognizing that they do have significant drawbacks and are not the best solution for all applications?
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On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 09:14:20 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

I know what he said. You though, don't see what he meant. There is a difference in what people say and what they mean.
First off, using a CFL in a closet is not cost effective, but they could still be there. Be honest, do you really need 100% brightness to find a shirt in 15 seconds? Or is 92% really enough? Sure,if you want to read for an hour, you want full brightness, but in the situation described, a 15 watt bulb would get the job done.

Then don't. No one lighting is going to be ideal in every situation. No one here ever stated it would be. I have kitchen and dining room fixtures with decorative lighting, those 40W and 60W bulbs. I have no plans to change them, ever.

I see you use the word "many" as opposed to "all". I bet if you think about it, "some" may even be a better fit.

But you have the sense to use them to save energy. You made a decision that putting up with a few seconds of low light is better than paying a big electric bill. See, we are thinking the same way.

ooops, just when I thought we were on the same page, you made false accusation. Where did I say "CFLs fit all"? You won't find that at all. Sometimes people read words but extract meanings that are not there.

They are not dishonest, but more of a sin of omission.

I really think most of us to recognize that. In the heat of battle, that fact gets pushed aside. Anyone that says they are 100% for every situation is wrong, just as those that refuse to ever use one are wrong.
I tried CFLs some years ago and hated them and the ugly green cast of light. I put them out of my mind for years. One evening, we went to a local restaurant and I noticed the lighting was changed and it was quite nice. Bright, no glare, not dingy yellow. Turns out, they changed to CFLs. That week I bought some newer versions and put them in a few lamp that we use a lot. I won't change back because they light color is better than it ever has been. YMMV.
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Maybe when they have bulbs that are consistent and get to 92% right from the start, we'll find out. Until then, I've had lots of them that don't put out enough light for applications like that to not be annoying.
Also, based on what I've seen, regardless of what one poster says, I'm skeptical that any of them get to 90 brightness instantly. He claims that one was a GE made in China. I'll be looking for one when I'm shopping. But from past experience, these products change within a few months. They could find another China manufacturer that is cheaper, whatever, and you go buy a GE bulb 6 months from now and it's crap. In all the common household products I have to buy, this CFL thing has been the overall most frustrating and disappointing.

You sure seem to chime in every time implying that CFLs are wonderful and there is something wrong with guys like RBM and me that don't want to put them everywhere, like a closet. How about RBM has a 100W plain old cheap light bulb where he likes the light quality from it and he wants to just keep using it anywhere? Now he can't because the govt has banned them. What's next? Banning Big Macs and fries? You OK with that too? Or would it have been a better idea for the govt to just let people decide for themselves what they want to use? And to work with the industry to make sure the ones out there have uniform and honest ratings as to service life, time to 80% light output, etc. The govt could have published ratings showing results of performance testing. Instead they just forced them down everyone's throats.

What I'm thinking is that the one that just blew out is going to be replaced by a regular bulb. Because the annoyance isn't worth it. And as far as saving electricity, what do you think about the many folks who have reported here that they now leave CFLs on 24/7 because they are cheaper to operate and they don't like to wait for them to warm up? I do that with some of them.

You may not say all. But you slammed RBM who has a perfectly valid point. And you've come at me before in kind of the same way, like I'm some biggot against CFLs for pointing out their significant drawbacks.

Then how about the fact that they are supposed to last XX hours, a very long time, which is written right on the box and almost all of them burn out in a fraction of it? The ones I've had have lasted about like regular bulbs. Is that being dishonest? I'm not the only one here that's experiencing that. Look at CL's post for example.

And maybe you're perception of light is different. I have never seen a CFL that was close in light quality to a regular one.
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On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 06:23:56 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

Why not get facts. The 100W incandescent bulb is not banned. Go to the store and you can buy them.

Dumb to do, but I can't stop them.

I uncovered the real reason. I think it is true of may of the posters against CFL. They tried them 10 years ago and did not like them (nor did I) and refuse to acknowledge they have improved. Some just don't want the governments telling them what to do. Now I agree with that, but I'm going to state it as such, not find excuses and blame the bulb when there is a different underlying cause.

That is entirely different. A couple of bulbs did not last all that long, but the others I've used have been in place for a very long time. Overall, my experience with bulb life has been very good and I changed a all the night lights in our plant and warehouse to them. They are on 24/7 and that may be a factor in the long life. The maintenance guys like them for that reason too.

No, my perception has not changed. I really like the new ones, really hated the old ones. The color temperature has changed in the past few years. I do some photography and I learned a lot about quality of lights, natural and artificial from that.
BTW, at work I only turn the lights of my office on for an hour on winter mornings. I much prefer the natural light from the two windows behind me. We has skylights put in the shop ceiling too.
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I do have the facts. And the facts are that the law passed years ago does ban the "plain old cheap 100Watt light bulb." A new law passed a few weeks ago just bans spending money to ENFORCE the law for a period of 1 year.

See, there you go again. Because you think I should put up with the inconvenience of stumbling around in a cold garage, unable to see enough for a minute+ to find the tool I'm looking for I'm dumb. Then, when I say there are some folks that think CFLs are good for all applications, you say "I didn't say that".

As I've stated, I've bought more recent ones and the results, while better, are still all over the place. I'm not alone here. Go back and read and others have said the same thing. A few people are reporting remarkably good results, but that hasn't been my experience.
A friend for example, recently bought some for his kitchen and is totally unsatisfied with the color of the light. He bought the ones alleged to be the warmest color and the light looks like crap compared to an incandescent. He thinks so. I think so. Is it because we're some kind of biggots? I think not.

Unfortunately, I don't live in a warehouse. For that application, they could be perfectly fine. Which is why I've said all along they are good for some applications and suck for others. Yet, when I choose not to use them for a garage that gets cold, and where I don't want to leave them on 24/7 you call me dumb. Go figure.

I mean maybe your perception of light is different than mine or the guy next door.
I really like the new ones, really

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On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 06:11:07 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

Must be firmly entrenched bias against CFL. 100w incandescent=color temp of 2700 Kelvin. 26W GE CFL soft white=color temp of 2700 Kelvin. Blind source test at University indicated inability to determine which was CFL.
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There must be some morons at University (sic).
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