Ceramic Tiles Installation Nightmare

I just finished about 30 sq feet of the bathroom tiles installed directly over sheet lino. Before I grouted it, I walked over the tiles and everything seems fine. Then I grouted it with sanded grout and afterwards I could hear slight noise when I stepped on the tiles.
The noise is like that the tiles are now pushing against the grout, like the edge of the tiles is rubbing against the grout. If the tiles won't crack, I could care less about the noise but I don't know for sure if I want to finish up the other 1/2 of the bathroom anymore.
When I tiled, I put the thinset at the back of the tiles instead of on the floor itself, don't know if that would make a difference or not.
Thanks.
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com wrote:

Not likely that the tiles will crack but the grout will. Why? Because the tiles are moving? Why? Because the tiles aren't well bedded and thinset won't stick to the lino/vinyl. You should have bedded them with mastic instead of thinset. Either that or put down - and mechanically fastened - cement board on top of the lino/vinyl.
Rip up what you did and do it right.
-- dadiOH ____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
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Why didn't you just rip up the linoleum? It only takes about 5 minutes to pull up.
dadiOH wrote:

grout
tiles.
tiles
Because
with
mechanically
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Why anybody attempts to put tile over anything but a solid floor proper always suprises me
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One time I put down tile before the subfloor went in. Then I had the housewarming party! Talk about embarrasing!!!! My family still isnt talking to me. The ones still alive, I mean.
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Because I talked to people, did research on website etc and came to the conclusion that it's not only OK but could be potentially beneficial to install tiles over lino. In fact, a contractor neighbour of mine was installing tiles over lino in his house a few months ago.
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IMO, you talked to the wrong people. No where have I seen a recommendation to place CT over vinyl using thinset. As a last resort where no other option exists you might do it using mastic or an epoxy compound. Even then you are doing the installation at your own risk.
Live with a mess for as long as you live there or rip it out and do it right. If you are like most of us, the expense and effort to rip it out will only hurt one time and will be forgotten within a couple of weeks. Living with the mess you have created will be a continuing saga.
Best wishes,
Colbyt
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What website said this was OK? I would never do such a thing (even with a mastic). Just because a contractor does it, does not mean it's OK. My guess is your neighbor will be having his tiles come loose also.
What benefit did you expect to realize? As you found out the linolium is not a good surface to bond to and being the anal type, I dont like another bond between my tile and structually sound material
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I will add if you go with Hardibacker it will be a firm base. That is about the hardest material I have ever worked with. I put down the 1/4 inch stuff. I planned to use self-tapping screws. They wouldn't tap. If I wanted to use them I would have had to do countersinks. Instead I went with what a guy at Home Depot recommended and that was putting down galvanized roofing nails (1 5/8"?). With one of them every six inches in every direction that backer board isn't going anywhere. The only problem is that you raise the floor another 1/4 inch for a total over 1/2 inch. You may have to trim some doors.
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Rich wrote:

Yeah you need a really powerful powerdriver (18V) to get those screws in. Even then it's a bitch. I used the nails (as well as screws), with good result, although I would warn any user that on a wall, pounding those nails in can be quite an intense assult on any opposing wall-like if the wall you are installing on sits opposite a room/hallway wall. I had to resink some old drywall anils, and then remud.
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What's the difference between mastic and thinset? Also, if I install the orange Shuluter sheet on the other half of the bathroom, would it help to eliminate the problem? Thanks.
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com wrote:

Thinset is cementatious, mastic is organic...it's the stuff you paste down vinyl with. ____________________

I have no idea what orange Shuluter sheet is but I rather doubt it. Unless it is cementatious so thinset will bond. But your best alternative is to rip up everything including the sheet goods, put down cement board properly and re-tile. Hell, you only have 30 sq.ft. down...
-- dadiOH ____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
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wrote:

Do what others recommend. Pull up everything. I would pull up the lino too. Then put down a backer board such as Hardibacker. I had contractors say they could lay over lino but my experience is that you will eventually have troubles.
My daughter bought a house that had a new ceramic over lino in the kitchen. It was about 10 years after they moved in that one of the kids dropped something heavy and cracked a tile. When they started to clean up the broken tile the ones around it came loose too. To fix it they first had to be very careful not to dislodge nearby tile. Then they had to relay about a dozen tile.
After putting down my floor over Hardibacker I wanted to replace one of the tile that had a little chip in it. I had to use a heavy chisel and mallet to get it loose.
Bottom line is that you can get away laying on lino but eventually it will come loose. Now if you want a floor that can be easily removed 5 or 10 years from now I suppose over lino would be the way.
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On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 03:46:24 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com wrote:

Think of the mastic as "glue", aka "tile adhesive". Think of thinset as "mortar", (as in bricks & mortar) or similar to concrete without the aggregate (rock/stone) and a finer sand in the mix.
Try this experiment: take a small blob of your thinset mix and place it on the surface of the vinyl. Let it dry completely then see how much it really adhered to the surface. My guess is not much. Next, try roughing up the vinyl surface first, see if you gain any adhesion.
Even if it does "fasten" the tile to it, some vinyl is fairly soft and "cushy", comfortable under foot but not necessarily a good base on which to secure tile. Tile, probably more than most types of flooring, needs a rigid base, once it starts moving it will crack the grout lines first and then the tiles themselves will crack and/or become loose if there is enough movement.
I am but a home handyman these days, although in the past I've worked in the construction trades (plumbing, electrical, landscape/fence/sprinkler, general remodeling). I've done several tile jobs for myself including floors, counters, backsplash, bath/shower surrounds.
If this were my job and I cared about it's quality and longevity, I'd do as others have suggested, tear up the already intalle d tile and lay down a proper base. At the very least I'd use mastic after scuffing off the shiny top layer of the vinyl. If it is brand new and is already making noise from movement, how long do you think it will be until total failure?
DJ
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You will be tearing that job up soon. You can't put tile over linoleum. I always prefer to see it on mesh and mud or at least one of the backer board products ...gosh...even plywood would be better. You need a very stable backing to apply tile because it is brittle and will crack either the tiles or the grout if it is flexible.....good luck...Ross
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com wrote:

to reiterate what everone else said: it is a nightmare, and it began when ou decided to install it over linoleum. Everything I have every read/heard/been instructed on has told me the most important (initial) aspect of tile installation is the substrate. You need an extremely rigid surface. One that holds its structure in moist/wet conditions is also very important (e.g. hardibacker). Perhaps that is why you heard linoleum would be a good surface? Since it doenst disinigrate in moist conditions? But overall it should be a terrible surface for tile instalation, -especially- with thinset. Thinset will not adhere to linoleum worth squat, so I would bet you those tiles are probably already floating on the linoleum.
IMHO you -could- intall hardibacker over the linoleum, BUT it would be best probably if you removed it.
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