ceramic tile

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your POV might be correct in a parallel universe but in my experience HeyBub's comment is "spot on"
or as we say "fast, cheap or good" ..... pick the two you'll be happiest with...... :)
A guy who's trying to deliver on a "cheap" job with skimp on mat'l AND labor cost to minimize the overall cost
Very few people intentionally do sloppy work but the realities of business & low bids force workers to cut corners and accept lessor results. Just the facts. :(
cheers Bob
+++++
The guy doing the job in a mansion or a shack is probably going to lay the tile to the best of his ability. The pro is going to do the job right regardless. He's not going to screw it up because he's laying cheaper tile. ---
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Dear MB-
I know there is a dead horse in here some where........
but you;re just not "getting it"

business & low bids force workers to cut corners and accept lessor results. <<<<<<<<<<
never the heard the phrases?
"good enough for government work", "they'll never see it through the bombsight", "don't put a $50 saddle on a $5 horse", "don't put $1000 paint job on a $50 car", "cost of quality / cost of non-conformance"
or maybe you'll understand this

but unless he;s perfect he is going to make some "mistakes" / less then perfect sets and the cost of the job (the proxy for the customer's desires) will determine which "mistakes" he accepts.
cheers Bob
cheers Bob
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Dear MB-
I know there is a dead horse in here some where........
but you;re just not "getting it"
++++++++
Having laid a bit of tile myself and having worked in a tile store for a short period may have something to do with it. I will not accept shoddy work. Which is why I always warn anyone working on my house upfront. If you'll accept shoddy work that's your business.
But I agree with the consensus that .5 mm is nothing to complain about.
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Master Betty wrote:

I think it's a little odd that a post will set off an intense discussion, but the OP never reappears or adds info. I suspect perhaps the measurement was intended to be cm., not mm. A half mm. just doesn't make any sense.
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do you really find that odd? :-P
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wrote:

not odd at all...this is the internet
cheers Bob
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On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 06:30:21 -0700, Smitty Two

In the building industry, when using these larger format tiles 1/8" is the threshold for ripping it out and 1/16 or less is the goal. That is according to someone who built over 100 high end houses in the 2005-2007 time frame.
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On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:47:22 -0400, " snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net"

Hey, some weeks, I have a life. I went to dinner at friends last night. Had to get dressed two hours after I OPosted. Did real work all day today. Now it's 5PM, and Verizon doesn't seem to be working.
I rebooted the DSL and the computer, but I don't feel like making phone calls. I don't know when this will get posted. Well, either they fixed something, or Verizon had disconnected me for non-payment (although maybe not since my phone still worked) but Verizon now lets you pay 24 hours every day, for 3 dollars, and says it restores in about 30 minutes. But I spent more than 30 minutes replacing my monitor, since the old one was failing. Anyhow, now it's 8:30.
I suspect perhaps

A half centimeter would be outrageious Maybe it was a full millimeter. All I had was my fingers.
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On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 06:30:21 -0700, Smitty Two

Ah. A valuable answer, Smitty. Thanks a lot.
The apartment needs a lot of work. This isn't going to be redone, but I wondered if it is another thing that was done wrong. My brother bought it sight unseen because his sister-in-law said it was good. He'll never do that again.
Gfretwell wrote:

Also a good answer. It definitely wasn't an eigjth. Despite what I said, it might possibly have been 1/16, especially since I checked only a small part of the floor. I'm sending this to myself as email and if my brother still owns it next year, I'll remember your dimensions and check again.
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wrote:

A quick sanity check is to put a 1 foot ruler over the joint and see if you can push a nickel under it.
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My point is:
you cant pay for a Yugo and expect a Cadillac, that's all
Paying top dollar and getting shoddy work is a bummer. Expecting perfection when one pays bargain rates is abusive.
Consider painting..... blemish free / top quality results require careful prep, good painting skills & sufficient, good quality paint. If the customer is only will to pay for one coat & doesn't want you to spend much time on prep and wants the prime coat omitted......whose fault is it when the results suck? Is the painter supposed to make up the difference out of his own pocket?
You get what you pay for ....... if you're vigilant, lucky or hire good people.
cheers Bob
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Any hack would point to a job where the lippage was within a half millimeter as a great job, and he wouldn't be wrong. Most owners would be tickled to have a job that flat. A half millimeter is about the thickness of four sheets of paper. Fold over two sheets of paper and make a sharp crease, put it on your desk, then run your finger from the desk over the crease. Now factor in that it's ceramic tile so there are no 90 degree corners - the top edges are rounded over a bit. Plus there's a grout line in between.
There are tile standards, and they are specific. They take into the size of the tile and the width of the grout line. The contractor has little to no control over the tile. All tile has some warpage from the firing and drying. An owner would go ape shit if a contractor rejected 50% of the tile the owner had supplied. If the owner wants a perfectly flat floor there are ways to achieve that, and it doesn't necessarily have to be in multimillion dollar houses.
http://www.tilemagonline.com/Articles/Column/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000000174382
To the OP: To answer your question - yes. It is within acceptable professional standards as outlined in your brother's contract. And here's a bit of unsolicited advice - don't slide dressers over grout lines on tile. Even if the edges are in plane the grout line is lower and you could chip an edge.
R
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My guess would be it's off further that .5 mm. But you're right. That's hardly worth complaining about.
As far as sliding stuff over grout lines; we do it all the time. Some tiles handle the variance better than others. The ones we used in our nursing home hallway had sharp edges where the ones we have in our home are contoured on the edges. The ones in our house are off but because of the shape it doesn't matter as much.
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wrote:

Any hack would point to a job where the lippage was within a half millimeter as a great job, and he wouldn't be wrong. Most owners would be tickled to have a job that flat. A half millimeter is about the thickness of four sheets of paper. Fold over two sheets of paper and make a sharp crease, put it on your desk, then run your finger from the desk over the crease. Now factor in that it's ceramic tile so there are no 90 degree corners - the top edges are rounded over a bit. Plus there's a grout line in between.
There are tile standards, and they are specific. They take into the size of the tile and the width of the grout line. The contractor has little to no control over the tile. All tile has some warpage from the firing and drying. An owner would go ape shit if a contractor rejected 50% of the tile the owner had supplied. If the owner wants a perfectly flat floor there are ways to achieve that, and it doesn't necessarily have to be in multimillion dollar houses.
*In my mind I was picturing cut stone tile such as marble. I didn't take notice that the OP was talking about ceramic which can be all over the place. I remember seeing unfinished Mexican tile being installed in a Beverly Hills home that had an old Mexico Theme. Rough and uneven was normal.
http://www.tilemagonline.com/Articles/Column/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000000174382
To the OP: To answer your question - yes. It is within acceptable professional standards as outlined in your brother's contract. And here's a bit of unsolicited advice - don't slide dressers over grout lines on tile. Even if the edges are in plane the grout line is lower and you could chip an edge.
R
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On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:06:11 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

One day it was explained to me the not all tile is square and grout lines may get crooked (?). The guy stacked numerous tiles and aligned them like a deck of cards. Sure enough the difference was obvious.
He showed the mark/stamps (not all tile is the same) and said if you orient the tile with the mark/stamp in the same way you will avoid poor lines for the grout.
Anyway, it was interesting to me.
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Interesting to me too. Thanks.
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mm wrote:

A half millimeter or less?? That's less than 1/50 inch. I think your brother should burn a joss stick and give thanks for a good job. He also might want to bevel the dresser feet slightly.
--

dadiOH
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wrote:

I think the dresser had metal glides.
I'd noticed the uneveness before the dresser, but had nothing with which to measure it. I usually bring tools, but now they want 15 dollars to check one bag, so I just took a carry-on. Even then I had to make sure my screwdrivers were 7 inches or less. I wouldn't have brought a memeasure of any sort anyhow, unless I drove.
Maybe it was more. It seemed uneven to me, and that even I could have done a better job. But maybe the apartment (condo) came with the tile installed, in which case it was good enough. I'll go again next year and bring a ruler with a strastraight edge.
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mm wrote:

Do like I did- buy a set of the essential tools of 'good enough' quality, and HIDE them at each relative's house, so they are there when I visit and need them. Harbor Freight, Big Lots, Sears sale flyer. Just buy them there, next time you visit. (And with how often the airlines lose my suitcase for a day or two on my trips, I also keep a couple changes of clothes and a fresh toothbrush stashed at each relative's place, but I digress...) A plastic box under the guest room bed should be plenty big enough for your 'home away from home'.
-- aem sends...
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wrote:

That's a good idea. Although it can't be under the bed. In the guest room, all there are are two twin mattresses on the floor!
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