Goodman isn't the cheapest brand out there. There are many brands that are
Ever stop to think it might have to do with marketing strategies?
Do you know who's rated number one for HVAC equipment sells???
What's your point?
But that makes your thoughts inaccurate.
No, it's a gimmick to get people to purchase a brand based on bullshit
Yes, we do... but it's not based on equipment. It's based on "who's going to
give me the best service", "who's going to stock parts for this unit",
"who's going to go the extra mile when I need them too", "where can I get
the parts if this distributor is 'out of stock' and it's an emergency", "who
has the better warranty", "who is easy to deal with", "who is going to take
care of warranty issues (without hassles)", etc...
You really need a clue, so here ya go...
CLUE <---- print it out so you have one!
Again, your comprehension fails you.
I did not say they were the cheapest. I said they were cheaper. I freely
admit that I don't know who is the cheapest.
Number one in what respect? Total sales? Why don't you enlighten me?
I think the point is pretty clear.
Again, for whom? 1) Consumer's Reports is a non-profit organization. 2) It
was a survey of 30,000 people. The results are their readers, not CR's.
They accept no advertising, nor free samples for testing.
Someone else mentioned that many of the parts are interchangeable among
brands, so how is this a problem?
Let's assume for a minute that you can get equal service for any brand.
Which would you be first to install? Which would be the last?
You also don't know who's the best either!
As you don't know much about the HVAC/R industry.
<<more BS snipped>>
Try putting a computer board from a Ford into a GM product. Will it work
A Lexus dealer/distributor has car tires... will they fit my Semi?
Now, do the same thing to your HVAC equipment. Is it any different?
I see you've never been in business...
The quality of service from a distributor is no different then the service
you get from a dealer. Are they always going to be equal? No!
But, for entertainment...
If you had a brand that was offered by one distributor vs. a brand where
several distributors offered it, which brand would you purchase?
But what about all those brands you claimed were identical?
Come on - what's the very last brand name you'd install in your own house?
It's not that hard a question.
Not the one that's at the bottom of the rating list, for starters.
I would defer to my installer, after having given him a few brands I'd be
Don't get the idea I'm down on tradesmen. I simply prefer to make an informed
Does that make them *all* identical... geez, pull your head out of your
No evasion, just more FACTS which you don't seem to like!
Seriously, it really wouldn't matter to me which brand it was... as long as
I was the one installing it.
I will also tell you (even though Goodman is at the bottom of your list),
it' be fine in my home too!
See, this is where that survey screws with people. Goodman products are just
as good as any in the field. And if that's the brand that the company is
familiar with and stocks parts for, I sure as hell wouldn't want them to
install something else!
You say you're not down on tradesmen, yet you're here arguing with a highly
competent HVAC tech (about his own trade)!!
Using CR to make a decision isn't making an informed decision. It helps you
make a decision based on an opinions that are not based on FACTS!!!!
I noticed you ignored the reply from poster "yourname".
I'm not arguing you disingenuous shit. YOU were the one who didn't like the
results of the survey I posted. I'm simply trying to get you to answer 2
One more time:
Let me repeat the questions. Hell, I'll even rephrase them for you.
Given *all* other factors are the same, and based on *quality* only, which
current brands would you install in your own home? More importantly, which
brands would you NOT install in your home.
Seeing as you already indicated some past designs or models that you didn't
like, what CURRENT designs or models do you not like? And don't lie and say
"I like them all."
Or are you going to pull a Fred Astaire and dance for me again?
Someone asks 2 simple questions. "What make furnace do you own?" "Have you
had problems with it?" 30,000 people answer with FACTS. Sheesh. Grab a
dictionary and look up "fact."
I didn't like the results????? Never said that... I said the survey was a
I could CARE LESS what order they list them in... again, the survey is a
As far as your questions, I have answered every single one of them with a
competent answer that YOU didn't like. Tough shit!!!
Did you not understand my answer the first time?
Did you not understand my answer the first time?
Here let me tell you again, it wouldn't matter which brand was installed in
Again, every manufacture has design flaws 'from time to time'. They show up
after a few months/years, if we knew in advance that they had design flaws,
they wouldn't be producing them, now would they?
I don't dance, I tell it like it is and if you don't like the FACTS, tough
Do those same people know if their equipment is installed per code? No
Do those same people know if their equipment is properly sized? No
Do those same people know if their equipment is installed per the
manufacture's instructions? No
Do those same people know if their equipment has been set-up properly? No
Do those same people know if their equipment has been maintained properly?
Those people had a repair, do they know if the service company serviced the
equipment properly the first time? No
Do those same people know if first repair cause issues that made the
equipment fail a second time? No
Are you starting to see the point? I bet you don't and you never will... as
you're to ignorant to see the FACTS!!!
The ones that are 'good' would be the ones that are properly sized,
installed to code and set-up to operate with-in the manufacture's
specifications. It will be installed by someone you can count on for repairs
and be able to make those repairs in a timely fashion. Installed by someone
that can give you competent answers for your questions.
The ones that are 'bad' are normally the ones installed by the lowest bidder
(not always). Equipment that is under/oversized that will not only
compromise your comfort, but cost you more to operate. Equipment that is
installed the quickest and cheapest way. Installed by someone that may or
may not return for service issues. Installed by someone with limited
knowledge and resources to be able to fix any issues you might have with the
equipment. Installed by an installer that doesn't understand what it takes
to make the equipment operate with-in the manufacture's specifications.
Installed by someone that doesn't make sure the ducting is adequate for the
new equipment. Installed by someone that doesn't take care of your personal
Now which brand, does which company offer?
You don't get it, your scenario doesn't exist.
Do you know that MOST equipment failures are due to improper installation
Do equipment manufactures have design issues? Yes, every single one does!
Give me a brand and I'll give you a failure!
Lennox - Pulse
Rheem - Drum
ICP - Clamshell
Trane - Clamshell
Janitrol - Clamshell
Goodman - Gemini
Consolidated - Horz HE
Coleman - DGAT
Honeywell - 9500
Jakel - Inducer
Every company goes through problem times... it my not be this year or the
next, but it does happen. Do you automatically know which design is going to
fail? No, if they did it wouldn't be in production!
The majority of comfort and reliability issues stem from a hack that slaps
in your system the fastest way possible.
Thank you! Now we're getting somewhere. You probably wouldn't install those
units, based on your extensive knowledge of them.
Well, I had a hack install my furnace. It appears my faith in getting quality
from Sears was misplaced. I later learned that they subcontract to the
cheapest installers they can find.
However, my few problems have all been mechanical.
Every case is different, which is why BRAND has very little to do with it!!
No your not, if fact, I would have no problems installing any of these
brands (except Consolidated, which is no longer in business) in my home. All
of these were design flaws that have been corrected.
Pulse is no longer manufactured.
Drum is no longer manufactured.
Clamshell problem has been addressed (most didn't show problems unless there
was an installation issue).
Gemini is no longer being used in that brand.
Consolidated is no longer in business (but guess what, Consolidated
manufactured these same units under MANY of the top brands as well).
DGAT has been addressed.
9500 was a manufacturing defect... has been corrected.
Inducers have been addressed.
How would someone that doesn't know anymore about HVAC then you do, really
know what caused your equipment failures?
Hell most technicians don't know, so how in the hell could you?
Their field reliability reports aren't their lab tests but reported
So, to infer that the reliability differences reported between vendors
over a large number of reports over a period of time is owing to
installation would require that bad installations go with those brands
-- also a reason to avoid those brands if true, but certainly not
likely. Far more likely is that the percentage of failures reported
that is owing to installation is an approximately consistent fraction of
all reports for each brand, hence leaving the overall equipment rankings
as slightly more reliable than reported but in the same (or very nearly
the same) relative position.
If brand X comes out better than brand Y in a consumer survey, should I,
as a consumer, really care whether that is because X's hardware is
better than Y's, or is because X trains their installers better so they
don't screw up as often?
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