Central A/C brands available for DIY installation

What realiable good quality central A/C brands are sold directly to homeowners and available for DIY installation? Can I buy any of them online?
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On 4/28/2012 10:10 AM, ls02 wrote:

http://www.acwholesalers.com / http://ecomfort.com/index.php
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Check eBay....there are many sellers on there with tons of feedback you can review. A proper installation is much more important than who the manufacturer is.....
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On 4/29/2012 12:54 AM, SRN wrote:

How true, I've seen inexpensive mid efficiency properly installed Goodman systems outlast and outperform improperly installed high efficiency American Standard and Trane systems. It can make you mad like seeing a gasoline fueled Bentley blowing smoke out the tailpipe and Bondo all over the body, not located in The Middle East. ^_^
TDD
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On Jul 16, 10:46pm, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky- finger.net> wrote:

I've only seen Rheem and Goodman offered for sale by regular online stores. Be aware of warranty issues, as you may not have the same or any warranty as if you bought it and had it installed from a local dealer.
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wrote:

..
Goodman is the easiest to get your hands on without a contractors license. Carrier and Trane both control their wholesalers pretty tightly. Goodman is actually a decent product these days. I don't know about the r410a but you can silver solder r22 systems using propane instead of brazing them and they will hold up just fine. While it is still a good idea to purge with nitrogen it's not as critical with propane as it is when brazing. You are not going to produce as much copper oxide inside the line with silver solder. A vacuum pump is still a pretty good idea though. Some of the old guys did used to charge by cracking open the low side to the atmosphere and letting the refrigerant purge the line but that's sort of guesswork and likely exceeds the de minimus release rules as well. And a set of guages is pretty much a must. Though the other old trick I heard of was charge using vapor until the low line feels like a beer just out of the fridge. If your plan is to get a pro to do the start up after you do the install find the pro willing to do that before you embark. Not many are.
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m...
Yes, Harris Silverbrite 8 can be used.

That is true too. As long as you're good at soldering and you don't overheat the joint the probability of forming a lot of crud inside is low. But how lucky do you feel compared to the cost of some nitrogen?
A

Good idea? It's essential.
Some of the old guys

That's for sure. Those old buys were hacks. Gases don't just go in and come out like a sausage. They mix. Moisture inside the lines boils off in a vacuum. With the bleed method above, it stays in the brand new system. And any contamination is apparently worse in the case of R410A systems too.
And a set of

That trick is another hack.
If your plan is to get a pro to do the start up after

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wrote:

com...
It's not so much the cost of nitrogen for the diy'er as it is access to the various pieces of equipment. Sure it's 50c worth of nitrogen. But you have to have a nitrogen tank, a regulator, and a line. Same issue with the rest of it. Vacuum pump costs money. Gauges cost money. Would I do it without gauges, no.
On the other hand the systems aren't as "fragile" as the hvac techs try to make it sound either. Put a filter/dryer in the line and what little moisture there is a factory pressure sealed A coil and new lineset is pretty much taken care of. And on a basic system that is using a fixed piston the charge is only "perfect" at one operating condition. At the rest it's a compromise anyway.
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s.com...
Yeah, they cost money, but then so too does that $2500 worth of AC equipment the guy just bought which can be ruined by some dumb ass doing a hack job.

The equipment manufacturers, who write the install directions would disagree with you. The instructions I have seen all stress the importance of pulling a proper vacuum, especially for R410 systems. And you can't legally use refrigerant to purge it anyway. In fact, the guy asking for recommendations can't do that part of the install legally at all, unless he has EPA certification.
As for saying the correct charge as specified by the manufacturer is only "perfect" at one operating condition, that's like saying the timing is only perfect at one condition on an internal combustion engine, so it's OK to just wing it......
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wrote:

ups.com...
I'm not saying it's not better to try to install the system with the most accurate charge possible. I'm just saying there is not as much consequence to being a bit off as some people claim. Particularly hvac techs that want to make it seem like installing a basic split system is interplanetary rocket science. There are a whole lot of residental systems out there running at less than perfect charges. And most of them will still run their normal life expectancy. Might cost a few dollars more a month to run.
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wrote:

egroups.com...
Shouldn't you be hanging around over there in alt.hvac?
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&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What realiable good quality central A/C brands are sold directly to<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; homeowners and available for DIY installation? Can I buy any of them<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; online?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Check eBay....there are many sellers on there with tons of feedback you can<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; review. A proper installation is much more important than who the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; manufacturer is.....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; How true, I've seen inexpensive mid efficiency properly installed<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Goodman systems outlast and outperform improperly installed high<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; efficiency American Standard and Trane systems. It can make you mad<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; like seeing a gasoline fueled Bentley blowing smoke out the tailpipe<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; and Bondo all over the body, not located in The Middle East. ^_^<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; TDD<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I've only seen Rheem and Goodman offered for sale<BR>&gt; &gt; by regular online stores. Be aware of warranty issues,<BR>&gt; &gt; as you may not have the same or any warranty as if you<BR>&gt; &gt; bought it and had it installed from a local dealer.- Hide quoted text -<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; - Show quoted text -<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Goodman is the easiest to get your hands on without a contractors<BR>&gt; license. Carrier and Trane both control their wholesalers pretty<BR>&gt; tightly. Goodman is actually a decent product these days. I don't<BR>&gt; know about the r410a but you can silver solder r22 systems using<BR>&gt; propane instead of brazing them and they will hold up just fine.<BR><BR>Yes, Harris Silverbrite 8 can be used.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana><BR></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana><EM>While maybe surprise to some of you Tech. out there</EM></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana><EM>It does not matter what Refrigerant you are using any contamination</EM></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana><EM>In any system is not good.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>As for type material you are using to install it is </EM></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana><EM>all how good tech. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</SPAN>you really are you can use silver sillfoss, <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</SPAN>Silverbrite or </EM></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana><EM>staybrite all are suitable on any of these refrigerants it is up to tech. matter of </EM></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana><EM>preference. Dealers are all scumbags when it comes to =tell you truth they love </EM></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana><EM>to sell You what are they dealing with? As for vacuum it is necessary to pull </EM></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana><EM>good vacuum on any system but you are not pulling vacuum because you are </EM></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana><EM>using Refrigerant #410, but type of oil it is in system, 410 refrigerant is not </EM></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana><EM>any difference then #134 or 404, however it becomes more critical if system</EM></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana><EM>is to be used at lower temperatures. The oil as POE which is use with all new </EM></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana><EM>refrigerants once gets contaminate Virtually it can not be clean or taking </EM></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana><EM>moisture out of system without changing of oil.</EM></FONT></P><BR><BR><FONT face=Verdana>&gt; While it is still a good idea to purge with nitrogen it's not as<BR>&gt; critical with propane as it is when brazing. You are not going to<BR>&gt; produce as much copper oxide inside the line with silver solder.<BR><BR>That is true too.&nbsp; As long as you're good at soldering<BR>and you don't overheat the joint the probability = of<BR>forming a lot of crud inside is low.&nbsp; But how lucky do<BR>you feel compared to the cost of some nitrogen?<BR><BR><BR><BR>A<BR>&gt; vacuum pump is still a pretty good idea though.<BR><BR>Good idea?&nbsp; It's essential.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Some of the old guys<BR>&gt; did used to charge by cracking open the low side to the atmosphere and<BR>&gt; letting the refrigerant purge the line but that's sort of guesswork<BR>&gt; and likely exceeds the de minimus release rules as well.<BR><BR>That's for sure.&nbsp; Those old buys were hacks.&nbsp; Gases don't just go in<BR>and come out like a sausage.&nbsp; They mix.<BR>Moisture inside the lines boils off in a vacuum.&nbsp; With<BR>the bleed method above, it stays in the brand new<BR>system.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; And any contamination is apparently worse in the case of<BR>R410A systems too.<BR><BR><BR><BR>And a set of<BR>&gt; guages is pretty much a must. Though the other old trick I heard of<BR>&gt; was charge using vapor until the low line feels like a beer just out<BR>&gt; of the fridge.<BR><BR>That trick is another = hack.<BR><BR><BR>If your plan is to get a pro to do the start up after<BR>&gt; you do the install find the pro willing to do that before you embark.<BR>&gt; Not many are.- Hide quoted text -<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; - Show quoted text -<BR></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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On 7/17/2012 7:20 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I have an acquaintance who's an American Standard dealer. He gets a premium price for that equipment and it's good stuff which he installs correctly. I imagine Trane and American Standard are strict with their distributors and dealers. It's my understanding that A.S. owns Trane and that internal parts are interchangeable. I was on the roof of a drugstore in Tupelo, MS today installing an interface control board so a standard thermostat would control that particular model unit that had come from the factory setup to only work with a proprietary Trane temperature controller. The conversion was necessary so a web based energy management system could be used to remotely control and monitor the HVAC system. At least it wasn't 105F like it was a few weeks ago when I made the 150 mile trip there. ^_^
TDD
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Oy, Trane. What an experience.
The heat came north, it was 95F and humid, today.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
news:ju50f4
I have an acquaintance who's an American Standard dealer. He gets a premium price for that equipment and it's good stuff which he installs correctly. I imagine Trane and American Standard are strict with their distributors and dealers. It's my understanding that A.S. owns Trane and that internal parts are interchangeable. I was on the roof of a drugstore in Tupelo, MS today installing an interface control board so a standard thermostat would control that particular model unit that had come from the factory setup to only work with a proprietary Trane temperature controller. The conversion was necessary so a web based energy management system could be used to remotely control and monitor the HVAC system. At least it wasn't 105F like it was a few weeks ago when I made the 150 mile trip there. ^_^
TDD
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On 7/17/2012 8:39 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Here in Alabamastan the humidity hits you like a slap in the face when you walk out of an air conditioned building. I swear I can feel more resistance when I walk through the air during periods of high humidity. It could just be a mater of warped perception but darned if it feels real. ^_^
TDD
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When I was a student pilot, we were told that hot humid air is less dense. Makes it much more dificult to take an air plane off the ground. Cold dry air, is much easier for take off.
Perhaps walking is a different matter than launching an aircraft?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
news:ju58db$n93
Here in Alabamastan the humidity hits you like a slap in the face when you walk out of an air conditioned building. I swear I can feel more resistance when I walk through the air during periods of high humidity. It could just be a mater of warped perception but darned if it feels real. ^_^
TDD
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Temperature is far more critical than humidity...
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:33:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

No, it's the same issue but you're sensing it a bit differently. Moist air is less dense than dry air (H20 has a molecular weight of 18, where O2/N2 is 30ish). Humid air being less dense, the airplane has less lift. The same is true of you. The air is less buoyant (you're displacing less mass of air), so heavier. At the same time, your cooling system doesn't work as well (evaporation is reduced).
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