Ceiling Painting Questions

Hello:
Have two bathrooms, both of whose ceilings I would like to add a coat of paint to. Am a true novice with this, so may I please ask some really basic questions:
Ceiling No. 1 has a textured finish; the typical "swirl" type.
Do I want to use a roller or a brush ? If a roller, what type of knap, etc. Really don't know what type to get if this is what you recommend
For the edges, and light fixtures that can't be removed, etc., is is correct to use a brush for these areas, even though a roller was used for the rest of the ceiling; will it "blend in" O,K, if I do ?
Ceiling No. 2 is smooth.
Again, is a roller or a brush best ?
BTW: one of them has a small brown water stain. I was thinking of coating it with Kilz first.
a. Do I have to sand or gouge out the brown part first ? b. Will a high quality latex go over the Kilz in a single coat such that the Kilz coating will not be apparent ?
c. Are there special paints for ceilings, or any high quality interior latex is fine ?
Any hints also would be much appreciated.
Thank you very much, Bob
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I'm no painting expert but I do paint my own stuff when I HAVE to.
When recently painting a textured ceiling, I used a 'texture' roller from Home Depot and it did a great job for me.
Hope this helps you.
Lewis.
*****
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alt.home.repair:

Brush around the edges, roller in the middle.

Get a 1/2" or 3/4" knap roller cover. You can spend a lot or a little. The cheap ones will have lots of loose fuzz, so comb them first. I gave up on cleaning roller covers long ago, so I buy the cheap ones and throw them away. The expensive ones are mostly for pros who don't mind cleaning. I'm a pro, but I'd rather have the time. If you take a break, wrap the roller cover in plastic and put it in the refrigerator. It will keep for weeks that way.

Yes. It will work fine as long as you don't let it dry between doing the edges and the field. I like what's called a "sash brush". It has an angled tip (side to side) and the fibers come to a chisel edge when you stroke on the paint. This makes it easy to get a very sharp, thin edge to "cut in" at the corners.

Use a roller. I once painted my hallway with a brush just so I could say I'd done it. It took at least five times as long, and I had a lot more drips. Also, my arms and back hurt from all the extra effort. I feel sorry for the painters who never had rollers.

Kilz is a pretty good brand. I'd use the oil-based version. If it's a small stain, get a spray can.

No
Yes
Yes and yes. Ceilings are traditionally painted flat white. The flat paint hides flaws in the sheet rock, and the white color makes the room seem larger.
Go to a real paint store and ask for advice. The people there will be glad to help you. The big-box stores often have someone behind the paint counter who got fired from McDonalds.

Preparation is the hardest, and most important, part of the job. Wash the walls, clean all the corners, fill the holes with spackle, caulk all the cracks. I went to see a client an hour ago who wants his living room painted. He said I don't have to clean, just paint over the dirt. I told him that since he smokes, the paint won't stick unless I clean off the deposits first.
Use the shiniest paint finish you can stand. Bathroom walls get wet and attact dust. Flat paint on the wall is harder to clean and rubs off easier. Think twice before you choose gloss or semi-gloss, though. They can be annoying as entire rooms.
Don't rely on tape for edges. The paint will wick under. If you have steady hands, you can paint a straight line faster than you can put up tape, take it down, and fix the problems. If you DO use tape, take it down before the paint dries.
Do a Google search for paint advice. There are plenty of web sites that will give you step-by-step instructions.

You're welcome very much. Let us know how it goes.
--
Steve B.
New Life Home Improvement
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Assume you mean a pattern vs "popcorn" (the loose crap that makes a mess when you touch it).
    http://www.drywallschool.com/textures.htm

You can use a roller just fine.

3/8" is typical for regular walls/ceilings. Really depends on how deep the "pattern" is. Go the next size up, like 1/2", should do it. Just remember that when you first load the roller it may not cover much or well. The roller has to get soaked with paint. Slightly wetting the roller before the forst dip in the paint tray will help "prime" it.
Paint sections between pain reloads. After initial direction go perpendicular to it for eveness.

Can't remove the fixture? Not sure why. Maybe too much of an issue for you.
Then trim around the fixture with a brush several inches out. Don't paint a clean "line" around it then leave that. Paint around it then pull the brush out away from the fixture in strokes so that the paint "feathers" out to very thin. This will blend it. When you do the rolling part, don't worry that you can see where you did the brushing. Overnight when the brushed and rolled parts are equally dry it should blend.
For the edges, paint it and "feather".

Roll it.

It may take a couple of coats depending on the stain.

If you can touch it and it is firm like the rest of the ceiling then no. If it's wet, you gotta find out why and fix it or it will just reappear. If it's soft but not wet then it must be an old water isssue that has been fixed and now dried out. Soft stuff should be removed and patched first. Not sure how bad that's gonna mess up your swirl.

Kilz is white unless tinted. If you are painting white over white it should pretty much cover.

Yes. By coincidence it's called ceiling paint :-) Generally it's thicker than regular paint. Don't get really cheap stuff. I've use the Glidden & Behr successfully.

Two coats of paint always has a nicer finished look. Let it dry the recommend time on the can between coats. Probably 4 hrs under ideal conditions.
A pro would probably recommend a coat of primer then a coat of paint.
Clean the ceiling the best you can before painting. TSP is typically recommended to wash it. Spongemop in a bucket maybe.
Between coats, wrap the roller cover in plastic wrap to prevent it from drying. If overnight, tossing it in the frig helps but not critical.

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Robert11 wrote:

1. Forget "texture rollers". Those are for *creating* texture.
2. Forget spraying. By the time you prep the room for that you could be finished, have drunk a six pack and taken the wife out to dinner and a movie.
3. All light fixtures can be removed.
You can paint either ceiling with either a roller or brush. If you use a roller, use a fuzzy, long nap roller for the textured ceiling (long=3/4"). That same roller could be used for the smooth ceiling but a short nap (or sponge) roller would be better.
Painting a smooth surface with a roller tends to give an orange peel effect. personally, I like it.
If you use a roller, you need to use a brush to cut in the edges at the wall first else you'll bump the wall with the roller. Cut in about 4-6" wide.
You needn't sand the stain. You probably don't even have to use Kilz on it but if you do the color coat will probably cover the Kilz in one coat. Depends on the color. If you think it won't cover the Kilz, paint that area separately with a light, brushed on coat and let dry before doing the rest of the ceiling.
Any good paint is fine. Make it acrylic latex, though. Myself, I'd also make it glossy or at least semi-glossy for bathrooms.
When rolling - especially a textured surface - you need to be sure everything is covered with paint. When you apply the paint, make a "W" with each part maybe 18" long then roll back and forth on that area in all directions...lengthwise, crosswise and both diagaonals. Don't press the roller hard against the surface...the "W" distributes a thick layer, the back & forth rolling distributes it and gets you an even coat. Don't be chintzy with the paint but don't leave gobs either...smooth and even.
An alternative for the smmoth ceiling is a painting pad...those are a foam pad covered with short nap mohair. I'd use a roller.
--

dadiOH
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Robert11 wrote:

If you have the "combed" swirl, it is not deep/rough enough to worry about. Use 1/4" nap roller. Covery your brown water stain with primer - Kilz makes good ones, but any good brand of primer with stain-blocking quality will do. Depending on old finish, you can see a difference in gloss between spot-primed area and the rest - in a small bath, either prime the whole ceiling or do two coats of paint.
There is a lot of stuff labelled as "ceiling" paint or "bathroom" paint. I use semi-gloss alkyd for walls and ceilings in bath. Be sure old surface is CLEAN and DRY.
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******************** My bathroom walls have an "orange peel" finish. I painted them (walls and ceiling) with semi-gloss paint. I used a roller and a brush. I used a brush in the areas too small for a roller - - and then I rolled as close to the brush finish as I could get to make it look the same. I wanted a washable paint in the bathrooms. You can seal the "brown" area with Kiltz or Painter's Insurance.
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Hi Robert! I'm sure others will have other ideas but here's mine.

Thats ok. Basic is good.

Want easy and professional look? You want a spray painter for this. You can in most areas, rent one. I do not know the price of renting them, but we have to redo ours as well soon and know that this is the easy way and looks better too. Caution though. When they call them 'spray painters' they mean exactly that. Prep the entire room by using masking tape to cover all edges you do not want painted and then with cheap plastic, cover the walls and anything ese (use masking tape to secure that plastic). For the floor (probably carpet there right?) you want *strong* plastic in several layers so that if you make accidents with the ladder foot and cut through some, you won't ruin the carpet if you drop a bcket of paint <grin, experience here>. At least 2 layers if you have berber carpet, at least 3 if shag/plush. I find old plastic shower curtins are perfect and you can reuse them later with more painting. Overlap the seams then use duct tape to hold them together. Offset the 'seam area' so you do not have 2 seams laying in the same place. Any rubber backed or plastic backed big 'sheet' will do.
Those cheap paint covers that arent much more than big sheets of non-sticking saran wrap, will do for the walls but a second layer of that too isnt a bad idea. Esecially since you are new at this and might have an 'oops' and rip the first layer at some point. If you plan to paint the walls at the same time, dont bother to cover them but use a roller. Sprayers on walls tend to leave 'drips' unless you are very good with them. Tht will not show on a ceiling. Practice first with something cheap like a piece of old warped plywood tucked up so you are spraying over your head.
Safety note no matter whch method you use (sprayer, roller, brush): You need wrap around non-vented goggles and some sort of mask that goes over your mouth and nose. As the goggles get speckled, wash them off with water (use latex paint) befre it dries and have a second pair handy. A cheap showercap is a very good idea.

If the sprayer doesnt match what you want or is too expensive, I'd use a brush. The rollers are going to have a problem getting inbetween the textured finished parts no matter what you do. Unless you are very used to upper body workouts, you'll find each day you can do about 6x6ft area so expect to do this in pieces. You'd want a good 5-6 inch wide thick (about 1/2 inch) bristle brush that can hold pait at the end parts.

It will be fine, but i wouldnt use a roller on a textured ceiling.

Roller is best and faster. Paint sprayer might not be optimal. Standard rollers will work fine. In fact, be sure the handle is a cheaper lighter weight one. You wll be reaching over your head with your arm up for quite a time and unless youve tried it, you don't realize how fast just 3 extra ounces will mean when doing a ceiling.

Actually first thing is to make sure you don't have a leak. If it is a slow developing spreading stain, you have a leak and painting it will just cver damage that later can be severely expensive. Water stains on a ceiling are the fist sign of a roof job. Done early, they do not cost much (comparatively). Often just replacing the tiles and you can layer tiles up to 3 layers thick in most places before you have to pay to have them removed and redone. We hit that in our house and had to pay for removal and some of the panels were rotting so were also done. *ouch*. 8,000$ versus just adding a layer (had we not already had 3 there) at less than 1,000$.
If you are sure you do not have a leak, yes. Treat and prime then paint. Not sure what 'kilz' is but if it's not a primer, then do not skip priming. You can prime just that section if you want but we usually do the whole thing.

No, but if it is due to an existing leak, nothing will fix it until you fix the leak.

Grin, sorry as said, I do not recognize the name 'kilz'. If it is a primer, then yes. That is what it is for.

Any interior paint will do but there are special ones that people do use with sprayers to both create the knobby texture and add 'sparkle'. I have such in m livingroom. Has a faint gold sparkle that picks up well with the wooded walls. I also have a harder time with the masking tape and coverage wth plastic as it has lovely solid wood beams at roughly 24 inch apart sections all along the ceiling. I used masking tape and 15 rolls of saran wrap last time just to protect the beans from paint overspray. Worked well but took us 3 days to get all the plastic preps up, then we rented the sprayer and were done in 2 hours. Don actually dropped the sprayer when he ran into the ceiling fan (masking tape holding up a clear garbage bag over the whole thing to protect it) and we were really glad for the 3 layers of plastic over our 6$ a yard carpet that we definately did NOT want to have to replace!

Happy to help Bob! Carol
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The guy says he's a novice right up front.
spray painter? easy?
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Opps! Just noted it was a bathroom. Ignore the notes about carpet <grin>. Carol

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Cshenk wrote:

(snip) Nah, carpeted bathrooms are surprisingly common. Stupid, IMHO, especially in houses with kids, or adult males who like their beer. It is usually a cut-to-fit rubber-back drop-in carpet, though. Think a giant version of those nasty U-shaped things that fit around toilet. (notorious floor rotters that they are.)
aem sends...
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Really? That makes me giggle a bit. Oh, I've had bathmats and such but never a carpeted bathroom. xxcarol
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