Ceiling Fan Wiring Question

Argh! Half of the information is not visible due to camera angle. :<

Before doing anything, verify power to the branch circuit is off. Turn the light on, verify the bulb is illuminated. Kill the breaker, verify the bulb is OFF. Make sure no one mucks with the breaker hereafter!

[Note, I suspect at least ne other outlet/fixture is powered AFTER this point; see notes below. You might want to identify that so you know how leisurely your repair can be -- before "someone" gets annoyed that they are reading in the dark, etc.]

It looks like the ROMEX at top right is bringing power *to* the box (or, taking it FROM the box and carrying it off to some other Jbox down the line). There appear to be *two* more ROMEX (?) lines not visible behind the fam mounting bracket at the lower left. One of these will be in a similar role as the ROMEX in the upper right (i.e., bringing power in or carrying it farther down the line).

The *other* (not visible) ROMEX will be the drop to the wall switch. It currently has it's white wire connected to the two blacks (and blue). This supplies power (hot) to the wall switch.

[N.B. This white wire should be "taped black" -- i.e., have a piece of black electrical tape wrapped around it to indicate "this wire is serving the role of a BLACK/hot wire in this circuit"]

After passing through the switch, this wire returns as the mating BLACK wire in that strand of ROMEX and is connected to the black pigtail of the appliance -- i.e., the FAN connection (from your description of the circuit's operation).

The LIGHT gets power through the blue pigtail -- i.e., ALWAYS (as it bypasses the switch entirely).

FAN and LIGHT share the white, common "neutral" pigtail (which is always connected to the neutrals from the ROMEX's that are passing

*through* the box.

If you want the FAN *and* LIGHT to both be "gated" by the wall switch (i.e., neither will operate unless the switch is ON), then MOVE the blue pigtail to the wire nut that has the black pigtail (so, that wirenut will now have black and blue pigtails AND the "switched black" lead returning from the wall switch).

Don't just naively add the blue wire to the black/black wires. Make sure the wire hasn't degraded from being twisted in its previous connection, now untwisted, etc. You may have to trim off any damaged ends and remove some more insulation to have "good wire" to play with.

Make sure the two blacks and white-taped-black are also firmly twisted back together before reattaching the wire nut.

Make sure none of the wires will end up pinched in the box or by the fan bracket! Remember, fan is designed to wobble in operation...

N.B. You can often rewire the *appliance* as well. So, you can arrange for the pull chain to control the FAN and have the LIGHT be "on all the time" (i.e., whenever the wall switch is ON, the light comes on; the fan can also be gated on/off through the switch OR can have power available at all times and turned on/off via the pull chain)

[This latter is how I prefer to have ceiling fans wired; I *always* want the light to be easily available and will suffer the inconvenience of having to pull a chain for the fan!]

Do yourself a favor and put a cable clamp on the piece of ROMEX coming in from the top right. If the one (two?) at the bottom left is missing a clamp as well, add one there. You may have to remove the box (at least two wood screws visible) to get it *into* the knockout on the Jbox... and, may have a bit of work required to get the whole assembly back up into the ceiling without enlarging the hole in the drywall. Can't attest to the stiffness of the support (to which the box AND fan support) are connected but fans like to introduce vibrations while operating; you don't want to discover that you're slowly wearing a hole through the insulation where that ROMEX passes through the knockout (rough edge of Jbox opening).

Also, verify the ground (bare) wire from the "invisible" ROMEX's are actually present and bonded to the case -- and the other ground wire. Otherwise, something is not seeing a ground!

Reply to
Don Y
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[apologies as I realize the wire/wire nut references may have been ambiguous. Edited to try to clarify...]

Print a copy of the picture (B&W is OK) and get a marker to label each wire -- "can't tell the players without a program!"

I.e., the ROMEX at upper right and *one* of the ones at lower left are "passing through" the box. The black wires of each are tied together in the RIGHT RED wire nut -- and the white wires tied together in the LEFT RED wire nut.

The drop connects it's white wire to the RIGHT RED wire nut that brings HOT *through* the Jbox; the black conductor for the drop connects to the black pigtail in the YELLOW wire nut.

I.e., the YELLOW wire nut is only HOT when the wall switch is ON.

I.e., the RIGHT RED wire nut is ALWAYS HOT (when the circuit breaker is ON).

The LEFT RED wire nut is ALWAYS NEUTRAL.

The YELLOW wire nut is (wall) SWITCHED HOT.

That's the RIGHT RED wire nut.

Note that the wire nuts are different colors for a reason; the RED will accept more wire (total "twisted" thickness) than the yellow. So, you may find the YELLOW won't fit in place of the RIGHT RED wirenut (when you're putting everything back together, don't swap the wirenuts).

It looks like this is all #14AWG so RED and YELLOW should each accommodate what you have, here... but "just in case", something you can watch for!

If you opt to remove the fan bracket to make it easier to access the wires (or, to remove the box to install the suggested cable clamps), note how the wires are routed

*through* the fan bracket (remember, fan wobbles *on* that bracket).

I can't verify that the Jbox used is actually suitable (rating) to carry the mechanical load (wobble, wobble) of the fan. The points at which the fan bracket connects to the box should, ideally, transfer the weight directly up to the base of the Jbox -- and the wooden support to which it is attached. Note the special mounts in the below referenced photo:

located at upper right and lower left. Read inscription stamped into box.

[Most DIYers don't think through what they are doing and just do what LOOKS like it MIGHT be correct. Ditto for handyman hires, etc. Remember, there's a REASON for all these rules! :>]
Reply to
Don Y

You can for some/most - but sometimes they don't work. They don't work if you have LED lighting in the room (from experience)

Reply to
clare

You better call an electrician - you do not haveany romex clamps in the box where the wires come in, and it is not a "fan rated " box. Stop screwing around and have it fixed RIGHT.

Reply to
clare

Many fans have a direction switch (located *on* the fan itself -- often a "slide" switch; usually arranged so sliding it towards the ceiling causes rotation that moves air upward and sliding it towards the floor reverses the direction so air moves downward).

Here, things get counterintuitive... :>

Pushing air downward creates a bit of a draft on the occupants to facilitate evaporative cooling (i.e. summer use). Pulling air upwards ends up pushing the air trapped above the fan (displaced by the air being drawn upwards) out to the walls and down into the room to heat the room.

[Intuition suggest the opposite would be the case!]

Of course, the cooling effect only makes sense if there are entities that can *perspire* in the air flow! A fan running in an empty room doesn't cool ANYONE!

Reply to
Don Y

It could have two hots but it doesn't need two hots. One hot as the supply is all that's needed. Then a two conductor from there to the wall switch. That provides all that's needed to have the fan side always hot and controlled by the pull cord and the light side runs thru the two conductor to be turned on and off. Or switch the fan and light if you want it the other way.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

The last part has been posted, repeated many times, but I'd like to see a test that it actually raises the temperature of the room down below. When you move air across the ceiling, you're disturbing the boundary layer of air and likely increasing the heat loss through the ceiling. I have mine set to down and only run them in summer.

Reply to
trader_4

Just use a Amazon Echo and you won't have to switch anything by hand. ^^

Reply to
Eagle

Everything snipped because the aioe news server - which I've never used before - doesn't like several lines of quoted text.

Thanks for the help, Don. Installed the clamps and moved the blue wire to the switched black wire. Didn't have to pull the box to install the clamps. This house has a walk-in attic, but that room doesn't have any flooring over it. So I was able to put the clamps through the holes from above. Fan and light both working from wall switch now. Mom is happy!

Reply to
Ron

Sometimes you get lucky... ;-)

I'd be more concerned about the missing (?) ground connections (though they may simply have been hidden in the photo) and whether or not the Jbox was rated to support a fan (mechanical) load...

The missing ground(s) can be a safety hazard for the other boxes that are fed *from* this one (in addition to the wall switch which should also have a grounded connection).

The mechanical rating of the box can cause the fan to come tumbling down... :<

Another tip: make sure the cowling that fits up against the ceiling has a little bit of slop between it and the ceiling. If you snug it up tight to the ceiling, then as the fan wobbles, it will crack the ceiling.

Reply to
Don Y

Not if it is installed properly - the fan hangs on a "U" joint or "gimball" and can pivot anywhere it wants without moving the canopy. If the canopy is moving, the box is moving, and it will soon come down.

Proper installation is canopy tight to the ceiling

Reply to
clare

That can;t sork -- if the *fan* is allowed to wobble (the cowling will wobble with it and, inevitably, dig into the ceiling).

I installed a fan above in-laws kitchen table ~35 years ago and the hanger was a hook-and-eye; hook went through center knockout of octagonal box into 2x6 straddling ceiling joists. Lift eye on fan stem onto hook. Connect wires. Slide cowling up fan stem until *close* to ceiling. Secure set screw.

The two fans on the back porch (here) use special brackets with a "ball" end on fan stem that slips *into* saddle bracket secured to Jbox (special boxes with reinforced bosses that transfer load directly to back/top surface of Jbox). They have far less wiggle room as the fan motor assemblies are much wider, shrouded and very close to ceiling -- I can't even see where the cowling *would* fit against the ceiling (no ceiling on porch)

Reply to
Don Y

Only absolute bottom of the line fans have been that way for the last

10 years or more. In other words, just the junkiest of the junky junk.

Those have the "gimball" and the canopy fits tight to the ceiling (or junction box) and the fan moves IN the canopy. No whay a properly tightedned current type fan could ever rub the canopy against the ceiling.

Reply to
clare

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