Carrier Corp.

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According to GOP debate last night Carrier Corp is moving to Mexico, Good luck guys.
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Some of it is: http://preview.alturl.com/atny6
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On 2/14/2016 2:47 PM, Tony944 wrote:

It was in the newspaper. 2000 jobs will be lost in Indiana. Sad situation for a lot of families.
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On 02/14/2016 02:34 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The company I worked for pulled the same thing.
It was originally American owned but was bought out by the Japanese. Everyone got nervous even though they made no changes.
Eventually, a group of the original owners bought it back and everyone kind of breathed a sigh of relief as we became American again.
Then they did the patriotic thing and opened a new plant in Mexico and closed one of the US plants.
A sad reflection on the American workers: the quality of the product improved! This is not quite the fine country it used to be I'm afraid.
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It hasn't been since circa 1968. But until around the mid 1960s we really didn't have much manufacturing competition. WWII pretty much destroyed the manufacturing capability of Britain and Europe. If you wanted to buy a manufactured product more complex than a hammer, you had to buy it from America. That provided a lot of jobs without competition; but those days are gone.
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On 02/15/2016 07:50 AM, CRNG wrote:

I live in Milwaukee, which is still a manufacturing city but only a fraction of what it once was.
Back in the 60's there were large factories of course, but almost everywhere small machine shops etc.
Also numerous foundries and tanneries.
As one would drive into town, you could see the smoke and haze everywhere and there were many sections of town (near the tanneries especially) that stank so badly, we'd drive miles out of our way to avoid.
The air is clean now and all the tanneries are gone.
So it's a trade off...I understand that the air in China is almost too bad to breathe.
How odd that in the 21st century, Communist China has "out-capitalized" the US ...
Who would want to live there with the pollution and the near-slave labor?
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Very much like the U.S. in the 1890s to 1940s.
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On 02/15/2016 12:26 PM, CRNG wrote:

Yes...I know NY did not even have garbage collection until 1905 or thereabouts.
Then there is Japan.
A friend whet to Tokyo and said you could not find so much as a cigarette butt on the ground.
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google nyc garbage collection history
I was surprised that there are so many, more than 10, urls about this very thing. All of them look interesting. Many have pictures. http://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/when-new-yorkers-lived-knee-deep-in-trash/ In 2002, Nagle was first granted access to the department’s archives, and in 2003, she initiated the process of actually becoming a sanitation worker. After working closely with the department for years—riding routes, visiting garages, attending social events, and interviewing employees—Nagle was named the department’s only Anthropologist in Residence in 2006. “It’s the perfect title,” says Nagle, “the perfect framing of my relationship with them. It lets me propose weird things, and they just shake their heads and say, ‘It must be because she’s an anthropologist.'”.... One of Nagle’s most disturbing revelations is that a career in sanitation is more dangerous than working for the fire or police department, despite a clear absence of public appreciation for our garbage men and women..... Nagle: It was created as the Department of Street Cleaning in 1881, and renamed the Department of Sanitation in 1929. But it was actually made effective for the first time in 1895, in that the people who worked for the department actually collected garbage and swept the streets.
http://discardstudies.com/2013/10/13/a-history-of-new-york-citys-solid-waste-management-in-photographs/ http://www.astc.org/exhibitions/rotten/timeline.htm not nyc especially http://cooperator.com/article/one-mans-trashis-still-trash http://archive.onearth.org/article/digging-into-new-york-citys-trashy-history http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/talking-trash-during-the-dog-days-a-brief-history-of-sanitation-in-new-york-city/ based on Nagle http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dsny/about/inside-dsny/history.shtml http://greenpointers.com/2014/03/27/trash-talk-new-yorks-fascinating-history-with-garbage/ http://io9.gizmodo.com/heres-what-new-york-city-looked-like-before-sanitation-565446786 https://sanitationupdates.wordpress.com/2010/07/29/a-brief-history-of-sanitation-in-new-york-city/ https://macaulay.cuny.edu/eportfolios/macbride13/research/a-timeline-of-solid-waste-management-in-new-york-city/ 1895 – George Waring became the Commissioner of the Department of Street Cleaning (now Dept. of Sanitation) and put into action a waste management plan that made ocean dumping illegal and mandated recycling efforts. Prior to Waring, 75% of New York City’s waste was dumped into the Atlantic Ocean. As part of Waring’s initiative, household waste was separated into three distinct categories and dealt with accordingly: (a) Food Waste was steamed and compressed to produce grease and fertilizer; (b) Rubbish from which paper and other materials were recovered; and (c) Ash, which was landfilled along with nonmarketable rubbish. This becomes New York City’s first recycling program. (NYCWasteless – History) ===>Manhattan and to a lesser extent Brooklyn and maybe Queens are a lot bigger than originally. As ships got bigger, the space between and under the short docks was filled in and longer piers extending into deeper water for the bigger ships were built. I think this happened several times. Battery Park City is built entirely on landfill.
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<stuff snipped>

What bothers me the most about today's politics is that both sides are busy trying to assess blame for the job situation but no one is really addressing the non-political causes of job loss. You can't assume that by giving the "job creators" money that they will actually create jobs and not buy robots or build off-shore plants. Nor can you assume that training people for jobs that don't exist will fix things. Carrier took state training money and is leaving anyway. That's pissed a lot of people off.
I think Carrier may have really stepped on their expansion valve making this move at this particular moment in the prez campaign. Something tells me they're about to be made an example of, by whom I don't yet know but when Trump yells out "let's tax the hell out of them" the dice are clearly rolling.
NAFTA provided lots of Americans with cheap goods so they wouldn't notice that it was sucking jobs out of the US like a giant vacuum cleaner.
The greater threat than Mexico or even ISIS is marked on the bottom of most things found in American houses these days: "Made in China." America's ability to produce so much shale oil and gas has disrupted the world's economy profoundly. It's more than likely that will cause serious social unrest in places that depended on oil revenue. If some of the theorists are right, the world economy could be in the toilet just in time for the election. Maybe the economic tide that swept Obama in will accompany his exit.
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On 02/15/2016 10:31 AM, Robert Green wrote:

A few years ago I took apart a failed electronic device that was marked "Made in the USA," but the circuit board inside said "Made in China." Apart from the circuit board all there was was a plastic case. So *what* was "Made in the USA"? Or did they simply mean "Assembled in the USA"?
Perce
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<stuff snipped>

They probably meant "you Americans are so stupid you'll believe anything!" The initial interest in being good trading partners had faded, I think, and now it's make money however you can, even with poisoned baby formula and pet food. Like the overseas VOIP nuisance callers they have probably learned that no one's there to stop them from committing nickel and dime fraudulent mislabeling. And worse.
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On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 10:38:59 AM UTC-5, Robert Green wrote:

Typical lib, blame America for everything. Like our increased oil production is the cause for more goods being manufactured in China. Only a loon could make that equation.

Yeah, better that oil stay at $100 to finance the likes of Putin. And as if we haven't seen the rollercoaster ride in oil prices before.

We're in a lot of trouble, but it has nothing to do with low oil prices. For a look at the real problem, consider that interest rates are at zero, the govt is running a horrific $450 bil deficit, and the economy is still weak.
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On 2/15/2016 9:31 AM, Robert Green wrote:

Speaking of as prices, I put gas in my van 2 days ago and it was only $1.19 a gallon. It's been like 15 or 20 years since I think I've seen that!
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wrote:

There has to be a lower limit to this. Even if the crude oil were free, it takes money to refine it and ship it.
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On 2/16/2016 12:20 PM, Micky wrote:

I really don't doubt that it'll go below a dollar a gallon, and I can remember when it used to BE less than a dollar, too. When gas prices were approaching $4 a gallon, I never thought I'd see it this low again, but here it is.
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Muggles posted for all of us...

Soon it will be cheaper than a bottle of water. Or milk or ... Think about it.
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On 2/16/2016 2:04 PM, Tekkie® wrote:

I don't mind it being cheaper one little bit!
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wrote:

It is already cheaper than milk and it traditionally always was. If you buy the bottle of water at the same place you get the gas, the gas is cheaper than that too.
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On 02/15/2016 08:31 AM, Robert Green wrote:

If the peasants couldn't buy cheap Chinese stuff at Walmart they would really be upset. Unfortunately you can only exploit foreign labor just so long.
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