Can you use white for one leg of 240V circuit?

Page 2 of 5  

wrote:

I didn't see anything in the thread about moving a dryer? The op mentioned it related to the ac compressors. On pure 240 circuits such as an ac compressor use of 2 conductors with a ground always has been and is still accpetable. Same is true for hot water heaters. New wiring for appliances that use both 240 and 120 such as stoves and electric dryers now requires 3 conductors plus ground. And a 4 prong outlet. RBM stated that 2 condutor with a ground was never accpetable for dryers and that's just false. For many years dryers were wired using 10/2 and the strap inside the dryer connected neutral and ground together.
** NO, RBM stated that 10/2g was never acceptable for electric dryers. 10/2 copper SEU cable would be acceptable, but I have never seen it. You would typically see 8/2 aluminum SEU. 10/2g Romex has NEVER been Nec approved for electric dryers
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

On 5/1/2011 9:12 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
"I've seen it for years but as of late the rule change calls for a four wire circuit. Years ago I installed a lot of dryers with 10/2 w/gr but now I use 10/3 w/gr or 8/3 w/gr. The smallest aluminum SEU you can run in a house around here is #2 which I often use for stoves. Moving an old dryer to a new location has us removing the old 3 wire cord and plug for the 4 wire cord and plug. I often run 10/2 w/gr to the disconnect for a 2 ton condensing unit and never bother to mark the white wire because it's in the same jacket as the black and ground.
TDD"
RBM Here is the point in the thread were moving dryers was mentioned. -- Tom Horne
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Missed that one.
I'm still having trouble believing that 10/2 w ground ws not code accepted at some point in the past. Just because I have seen so many of them. But I don't have copies of old code laying around to prove or disprove. And we all agree that any chanes require it be brought up to 10/3 w ground.
The other point is one I'm not sure about either. Does code require a white condutor be marked black if it is used as one leg of a 240 circuit?
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 3 May 2011 07:59:51 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc

Yes it is required to be reidentified. The only place where you didn't have to do it was in a switch leg using a cable (like Romex) but they plugged that hole in 1999. They still require that the white be used as the hot side of the switch leg, even when reidentified. That way the switched side will be the normal color at the light. (or other equipment)
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On May 3, 11:48 am, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Interesting. You sure don't find them re-marked in the real world much. At least not in residential anyway.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 3 May 2011 10:55:26 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc

I believe that is part of the reason why NFPA closed the switch loop exception, so it would be uniformly required to always reidentify ungrounded conductors to something other than white.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On May 3, 11:48 am, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

really? typ. practice is to use black for hot and white for switched IME
nate
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

It is not what the code says. The white gets connected to the hot side and the black is the switched leg so when it gets to the luminaire the installer is presented with a white and a black.
200-7(C)(2)Where a cable assembly contains an insulated conductor for single-pole, 3-way or 4-way switch loops and the conductor with white or gray insulation or a marking of three continuous white stripes is used for the supply to the switch but not as a return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet. In these applications, the conductor with white or gray insulation or with three continuous white stripes shall be permanently reidentified to indicate its use by painting or other effective means at its terminations and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

As much as I hate to agree with this guy I can see a case for 14/2 that has both conductors with black insulation for switch runs. Personally I like to run the power to the switch box myself and that avoids the problem of a hot white.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

As much as I hate to agree with this guy I can see a case for 14/2 that has both conductors with black insulation for switch runs. Personally I like to run the power to the switch box myself and that avoids the problem of a hot white.
** It would be impractical to have to carry a special cable just to run switch legs. You can always run a 3 wire cable and use red and black. The new Nec will be requiring a neutral at switch locations, so the problem will be eliminated anyway
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I can see your point on "special" wire. Sharpie is a lot smaller.
Glad to hear about the code change. Reinforces my currrent practice :-)
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 5/4/2011 6:36 AM, RBM wrote:

Having a white neutral conductor in a 14-3 for switch legs makes it easy to install timers, lighted indicators and all sorts of controls for energy management in the switch boxes. I'm sure there are going to be a lot of energy management mandates showing up in building codes and specs for them in The NEC in the coming months and years if there are not already rules and laws in places like Californiastan. ^_^
TDD
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 04 May 2011 19:11:12 -0500, The Daring Dufas

In residential, smurf tube (ENT) is a good alternative to EMT. It gives you the flexibility without the hassle.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 5/5/2011 12:22 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I've used it with much success in the applications where I wanted it but I'll want the EMT in my place because of the inherent EM shielding of the metal conduit. I play with a lot of signal and DATA cabling so I want to prevent as much interference as I can. I can't imagine the thousands of feet of conduit and wire I've run. It gets away from you because of the sheer volume. In the late 1980's I was installing a Halon fire suppression and alarm system in the mission control center for a part of The SDI Program and me and the crew I was working with, pulled 20,000 feet of 14 THHN stranded into different 3/4 EMT runs in one day. That was just a small part of the system and the stuff adds up. When you run a lot of EMT you can pretty much look at an area and know how you're going install your conduit runs because you'll do the job in your head first. Of course when I win the giant lottery and I get a gazillion dollars to build my dream home, I'll go with wide metal studs and steel frame which makes conduit easier to install anyway. ^_^
TDD
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

yuck. I hate steel studs, unless they're installed at 12" OC or less.
Of course, I like plaster walls, too.
Nothing annoys me more than slamming a door and having every bloody wall in the house shake. just makes the place feel cheap, and is widespread among new construction McMansions... (even if they use wood 2x4s they often install them 24" OC instead of 16" like a good carpenter would. Hate hate hate hate hate hate it.)
nate
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 5/5/2011 3:39 PM, N8N wrote:

Yea but, my walls would be sound damped which would add to their mass which would prevent rattling. No half way measures for a gazillionaire geek. ^_^
TDD
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

always
up.
My walls would be hollow and wide enough to walk through. I would install the obligatory portraits with the eye holes cut out and I'd dig an escape tunnel into the woods behind the house that had rails and a jet propelled exit sled. And I'd have a moat and drawbridge with a secret trap door to send Saturday morning door-knocking, save your soul religious types straight to a moat baptism while fighting off the alligators and piranhas in the water. That way, I could get to look down at them and say: "You disagreed with something that ate you."
-- Bobby G.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 5/6/2011 12:46 AM, Robert Green wrote:

I used to have fun frightening those Jesus freaks when they came to the door by claiming to be in the middle of Satanic ritual sacrifice of a nubile virgin. If I saw them in the area going from house to house and had the time, I would call some friends to get in on it and setup a whole faux Satanic ritual to confront the proselytizers with. I had a couple of gal pals who did the greatest evil diva act which would send many of the door knockers running in terror. It was such fun back then. ^_^
TDD
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
<stuff snipped>

install
escape
propelled
to
straight
disagreed
^_^
It's too bad I don't have time for much fun with them anymore. I did mount a 12" alarm bell right above the front door to discourage the more persistent ones. They're the ones who knock forever (and could easily be looking for homes to target for burglary) and upset all the neighborhood dogs. It's easy to tell when they are "working the area." The best part is watching them skulk away like they didn't do anything. The worst of the bunch was not Jehovah's Witlesses, but some kids Verizon hired to peddle FIOS. Verizon went from "no information about FIOS in your area is available" to banging my door down every few days.
-- Bobby G.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 5/8/2011 1:05 PM, Robert Green wrote:

Some of them don't understand what "No Soliciting" or "No Salesmen" on a sign at your front gate means. Pepper spray helps train them. :-)
TDD
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.