Can you use white for one leg of 240V circuit?

For many years the NEC allowed the neutral of an SE cable to also be used as a ground for ranges and dryers. It never allowed the ground of a

2 wire Romex to also be used as a neutral. Another requirement was the SE cable had to originate at the service panel (not a subpanel).

============================= If a 2 wire Romex is used for a 240V circuit the white MUST be remarked at both ends.

Reply to
bud--
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the current used by a timer motor is more then enough to kill.

Mark

Reply to
Mark

No, it was _NOT_ a Code violation until NEC was changed to make it such.

I don't know which version did make the change; the latest reference at hand is based on NEC 1984; 3-wire (as in two leads and a ground) was compliant at the time. NEC Sec 220-18 at the time required minimum

10-ga and grounding the case to the neutral was acceptable.

And, at that time, NEC 338-3(b) allowed that for ranges, ovens, cooktops and clothes dryers the cable may have bare neutral that served as both the neutral and the equipment grounding connector. The one restriction on that was that it had to be a single, direct run from the equipment; no branches allowed. This was/is virtually always the case in single residential installations.

I'd venture it was mid-90s or thereabouts the reqm't for 4-conductors became codified; as said I don't have a listing of changes and when were made and I'm not going to go look for it. I am certain (as I just looked it up) that it was within Code thru 1984 as outlined above.

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Reply to
dpb

glegroups.com...

Every time I have bought a dryer it did not come with a cord. If the old dryer was broken, usually was, I used the cord from it. Though I tend to buy basic no frills appliances so maybe when you spend more you get a cord :-)

Reply to
jamesgangnc

OK lets look it up together.

Start in 250-60(b) where you get the permission to use the "GROUNDED" conductor. (That is the neutral).

250-60(c) further says that grounded conductor "is insulated" unless it is SE cable originating at the service equipment.

The practical result of that is that you will be using 10-3 if you use Romex and usually that will turn out being 10-3/wg. The ground wire was either cut off or terminated in the box.

The change to 4 wire was 1996

Reply to
gfretwell

Dryers usually do not come with a power cord. It is an extra charge item you have to specify and purchase. The installer will have both kinds on the truck if you pay for the install

Reply to
gfretwell

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@h38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...

I bought a dryer two years ago at Sears. It too did not come with a cord. If you bought a dryer over a set amount, you get the delivery free. I told the sales guy that I had an existing dryer. I would like to have the delivery guys remove the old dryer, I would change the cord, they could then set the new dryer and haul the old one away.

Since the delivery guys only subbed for Sears, the sales guy gave me a cord at the store for free. He said that he did not want any problems with the delivery guys having to wait for me to change the cord. I think the cord would have been around 30 bucks.

Reply to
Metspitzer

On 5/2/2011 12:20 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: ...

Not the pertinent section.

As noted, 338-3(b) is the subject paragraph allowing the previous practice that was modified.

Seems about right; that's pretty close to "mid-90s". :)

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Reply to
dpb

The last two power supplies I bought for computer builds did not come with power cords either.

It should be crim>"French fries with that?" Somehow, that really

Reply to
Metspitzer

Thank you Bud, finally someone that actually knows the code.

Reply to
RBM

I didn't see anything in the thread about moving a dryer? The op mentioned it related to the ac compressors. On pure 240 circuits such as an ac compressor use of 2 conductors with a ground always has been and is still accpetable. Same is true for hot water heaters. New wiring for appliances that use both 240 and 120 such as stoves and electric dryers now requires 3 conductors plus ground. And a 4 prong outlet. RBM stated that 2 condutor with a ground was never accpetable for dryers and that's just false. For many years dryers were wired using 10/2 and the strap inside the dryer connected neutral and ground together.

** NO, RBM stated that 10/2g was never acceptable for electric dryers. 10/2 copper SEU cable would be acceptable, but I have never seen it. You would typically see 8/2 aluminum SEU. 10/2g Romex has NEVER been Nec approved for electric dryers
Reply to
RBM

Exactly, with the exception of type "SE" cable, originating from the main service panel

Reply to
RBM

Cell phones built the last 2 years have standardize on micro-usb plugs. We have three newer cell phones in our home, they are all micro-usb and can all use the same charger.

Reply to
Congoleum Breckenridge

On 5/2/2011 5:24 PM, RBM wrote: ...

Could be; I don't have a copy...

Doesn't really matter; the old rules are no longer in effect but did seem worthy to correct the idea that somehow all those earlier installations were not Code-compliant at the time and only were allowed by (essentially) dishonest inspections passing violations.

Reply to
dpb

338 only applies to SE cable. We already determined SE cable was an exception to the insulated grounded conductor rule. It does not allow 10-2 romex.
Reply to
gfretwell

Roger...wasn't clear on the SE rating earlier, thanks for pointing it out....hmmm...looking at earlier posting I see the way I paraphrased wasn't really good in indicating that the run does have to be service cable SE-rated as well as the no branching rule--I was focused on the bare connector part too much from wording earlier.

Reply to
dpb

That's so; see other response. That's the way the uninsulated connector could be used. _IF_ the installation used non-SE rated, that indeed would have been a violation.

Reply to
dpb

** The issue isn't the 3 wire plug and cord set. You just can't connect it to 10/2g Romex. To be Nec compliant, it had to be connected to 10/2 service entrance cable, which I've never seen in copper, so it would typically be connected to 8/2 aluminum service entrance cable. >
Reply to
RBM

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