Leaving the window open sounds like a stupid idea. Warm air rises and goes out the window. Cold air rushes in to replace it. Carbon monoxide generally builds up along the floor and stays there. You could asphyxiate and freeze to death at the same time.
Properly, designed, there's a change it might work. Low RPM, water cooling, plant outside and the right type of fuel might pencil out to something competitive with utility rates, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Ask someone with lots of experience with this sort of thing like that guy from Alaska. Chances are, he has worked out a lot of the bugs.
I got 5.9 cents/kWh, ignoring interest, and assuming the $899 EU2000 wears out in 10,000 hours with no disposal value. But can we buy a $129 cylinder replacement assembly after 10K hours?
I suggested piping the exhaust out a window, after it passes down through a natural gas water heater in a depressurized basement enclosure.
With almost the same molecular weight, it mixes well with air.
a small gas engine puts out alot of carbon monoxide,, and that stuff kill humans.... so dont be a dumb ass and kill yourself. just opening a window wont vent it out. i got a furnace blower in my garage that blows outside and a 8 inch inlet hose on it.the outlet is air tight in the wall.. i put it on tailpipes of cars or lawnmowers to run them inside in the winter and sometimes it gets quite stinky, you need to have another air inlet in the room open. lucas
Nick you got 5.9 cents kwh on a EU 2000 for producing electricity, Id like to see your numbers. To get 10000 hrs life it needs to run at half load and near 1800 rpm
No. Wrong. I don't need you to think for me; therefore, since I don't think like you do, I am not part of the "rest" of your comment. If tinw is new to you, then you're pretty ignorant yet. Look it up, iggie. So speak for yourself.
: : Are you related to that halfwit, or something? : : -- : If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space. : Linux Registered User #327951 :
Not correct. CO mixes quite well with breathable air. It's propane pools along the floor.
It's generally deadly mistake to put anything that that generates CO in a closed space without having thought-out and well-designed ventilation in place FIRST. Most portable generators are not designed for indoor use. LISTEN to that advice.
Although I would never recommend a portable generator indoors, a correctly installed outside vented exhaust would greatly reduce the possibility of not waking up the next morning. It's best to put it in the garage and leave the garage door open, or build a shed for it outdoors. We have a portable backup gen in the garage and pipe the exhaust outdoors.
Show how you arrived at it. With the rated load for a EU2000 of 1600W, it uses a gallon in 4 hours (1/4 gallon in an hour) Abt 50 cents an hour to produce 1.6 kwh. Now add depreciation.
At 1/4 rated load of 400 W the running time is 15 hours. Abt 13 cents to produce 400 W.
a) the ability of one gas to "mix" (term used a bit loosely) with others. At one extreme, for example, if you pour cooking oil into water there's very little mixing, and you've got a rpetty clear line between the two.
(Yes, there _is_ some oil mixed in with the water lower down, but it's a pretty small percentage).
b) the density of one gas compared to the others. The lighter ones tend to want to go upwards, but if the difference is small, they'll stay together.
Now...
1) Molecular density of air:
Nitrogen (N2) is (14*2) = 28 Oxygen (O2) is (16*2) - 32
(note that they're pretty close, so there's no "huge" differential pulling them apart).
WAG, since O2 is 19% of air (call it 20) and N2 is 80%, and ignoring the small noise from dissolving...
28 * 80 = 2,240 32 * 20 = 640
2,880
or... molecular weight of air is about 29.
So... let's see what CO is like.
Carbon = 12, Oxygen = 16, therefor CO = 28
That's pretty close to ambient air, so it hangs around.
Now in regards to the other stuff, and why propane is a _serious_ fire hazard indoors, and methane (natural gas) is much safer:
Propane = C3H8, so (12*3) + (1*8) = 44. That's much, much, heavier than room air, so propane sinks and stayd in the house/basement.
Natural gas = methane = C1H4, so (12*1) + (1*4) = 16.
That's a lot _lighter_ than air so it quickly rises and dissipates.
Now neither claim is perfect, of course, Some propane does mix and go up and out, while some methane mixes and stays around, but the percentages are pretty weighted...
CO2 *is* heavier than air. With a molecular weight of 44, it sinks to the floor pretty much. Although not as toxic as CO, it will displace air and sufficate. Perhaps you just mixed (pun) the two gasses up?
Nicks numbers are wrong again ol senile nick, if it was that cheap to generate electricity Id buy a thousand hondas and make a fortune selling to industry. I pay .125 kwh soon to be .15kwh. Aint No Way a honda can do it cheaper nik. Re run your numbers nicky, At worst case Id but a honda, convert it to NG and disconnect the utility. it aint gonna happen, nor will 10000 hrs at 3600 rpm. Elkryder is getting only 1000 hrs off a superior water cooled 2 cilinder 3600 rpm Honda, And he junks one a year. Everyone I know says 3600 rpm hondas good for 3-5000 max. As I said run it 50% load =1800 rpm and 10000 is doable. Google for your evidence of truth and fact. and quit posting bs
An Eu 2000 uses 1.1 gal in 4 hrs at 1600w, its even worse than 1gph. If it was remotely possible id think you nick would of had a few running selling juice to everyone by now. Go back to class nick
Both are products of combustion of any fuel that has carbon in it (such as fossil fuel running in a generator). Either one, if allowed to accumulate in a closed space (such as a basement) can be deadly.
Only if perfectly mixed with air. I have an "infinite" supply of gas in my basement too, perfectly mixed with air will make the gasoline look petty. Many have 275 gallons of fuel oil in their basements as well as 40 gallons of gaoline sitting in their driveway too. There are very good reasons not to do this, but an explosion is way down the list.
Nick we would like to see how you arrived at a operating cost of 5.9cent per kwh for a Honda EU 2000, everyone else arrives with a cost many times that amount. At 4000 hr life, 3600 rpm, 2.25$ a gallon fuel I come up with apx 1.56$ per kwh. Alot different than your Magical dream of 5.9cent kwh number. No you never posted them. Also document a EU
2000 that can even possibly run 10000 hrs at full load-3600 rpm.
You've already seen it, but I wonder... Somebody wrote that most of the mechanical parts that wear in an EU1000 can be replaced with a $129 cylinder assembly. Is the EU2000 also like that?
Article 106218 of alt.energy.homepower: From: snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu Newsgroups: alt.home.repair,alt.energy.homepower Subject: Re: Honda eu 2000 Generator Date: 7 Dec 2005 07:44:20 -0500 Organization: Villanova University
With a 125K Btu/gallon high heating value and a 10,000 hour engine lifetime, Honda EU2000 cogen looks less economical: if we burn 1.08 gallons of gasoline with a fuel value of 135K Btu in 4 hours at the 1600 W rated load and make
6.4 kWh (21.8K Btu) of electricity and 113.2K Btu of heat (another 33.2 kWh, ie 39.6 kWh total) and the heat replaces electric resistance and the Honda costs $899 (mayberrys.com) and wear adds $0.09/h, ie 5.6 cents/kWh, this kind of cogen only seems to make sense at an off-road gas price of $1.75/gallon if electricity costs more than 100x$1.75/39.6+5.6 = 10.7 cents/kWh.
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