Can welding Oxygen be used in place of medical oxygen?

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On 6/20/2010 3:47 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I'll see what I can find out from some of the guys who work there. If I take pictures, the UAB police may tackle me as a terrorism suspect. I may drive by with my camera this week.
TDD
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You think wrong. Medical oxygen is used in many places aside from hospitals. Thousands of bottle every day are used in private homes. They are single size, no manifolds, They are generally used until empty. Valves are left open, regulators removed. They are sometimes stored in poor environments, must basements, trunk of a car, under the sink, laundry room.

Not speculation. I've filled tanks. I followed the regulations.
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filling. After that, you are on your own. Same with medicines, etc. They have to be manufactured and stored pre-patient to certain conditions.

w/o anyone mentioning the main danger of non-medical oxygen... That the insurance company won't pay for it (g).
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Even the large tanks (5-foot tall) are used in homes?

So what you're saying is that welding tanks are probably safer - because they're not as exposed to such nasty conditions and situations as the home-use medical tanks are? And welding tanks are more likely to be returned with some positive pressure - as opposed to home-use medical tanks as you have just described?

So go further and tell us if welding tanks are, or are not, evacuated prior to being refilled.
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Yes. sometimes. That is an "H" tank. Most home uses is smaller "D" tanks. D and E tanks are generally used as portables or for emergency backup if a concentrator fails or if there is a power failure.

Show me where I said industrial tanks are not exposed to nasty conditions.

I worked with medical, not industrial so I don't know the answer, nor do I care. Medical oxygen comes with paperwork. That makes it different and the only way it can be used for a patient. Think what you want, but unless it is medical grade, no oxygen supplier is going to give a tank to a patient.
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On 6/21/2010 4:47 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

A fellow I know works on X-ray equipment and said the 50 cent bolt from HD or Lowe's costs $25 if it's for one of his X-ray machines. The reason being a stack of paperwork required for each little part. Is it an exaggeration? I don't know but I know someone who does and I may have to drop by and ask him.
TDD
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I don't know if that is exactly the cost, but it sure is going to be higher. Anything needing certification or to meet military specs is higher. In the McMaster catalog a 1/4-20 stainless bolt can be 14 to meet ASTM specs and becomes 94 to meet a MIL spec.
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Just like food grade propane! ;)
nb
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You need to quit sniffing the stuff.
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On 6/21/2010 3:36 PM, notbob wrote:

I've been using low cholesterol gasoline in my van.
TDD
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Yes there is a difference according to my first aid training (years ago). You can use in the case of emergency. It is IIRC too dry to use for extended periods (I should have paid more attention to that discussion).
Harry K
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Certification. Medical oxygen has to be certified to a certain purity, welding does not. You pay for that test and the potential liability that goes along with it.
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

How exactly can compressed oxygen be "impure" ?
Are some oxygen molecules more pure than other oxygen molecules?
Or does the Medical oxygen tank look nicer and cleaner than the Welding oxygen tank?

I think you pay more for medical and aviation O2 because the consequences can be more expensive if there is a problem with the product (the product being compressed oxygen). The product itself is no more expensive or different or has any additional processing steps done to it on the basis of it's sale in it's variously-labelled forms.
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The content of bottled oxygen is not 100% pure. It is 99.xxx% pure. That other tiny amount can be anything in the atmosphere or it can be some contaminant from the bottle. I used to work with medical oxygen and every batch had a certification giving the purity.

That is what I just said above.

It has a step that does not have to be taken with welding oxygen. Certification. O2 tanks have been contaminated in the past. Rare, but it has happened. Filling my own tanks, I'd not be concerned about using welding oxygen, but I'm not so quick to grab a tank off the back of a truck at a job site and start breathing it. If you get the certification with welding grade, then it is the same. That piece of paper is worth a lot of money if there ever was a problem.
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On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 00:47:07 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"

I buy lots of oxygen from the welding store and the label always says USP grade. I have never seen any other kind. The answer is on the label tho.
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That is because the oxygen itself it USP grade. One difference I forgot to mention. Filling procedure. You can fill a welding grade bottle by making the connection, opening the valve, and filling. When filling medical bottles, they must be emptied, hooked to a vacuum pump and evacuated, then filled.
Welding grade can be used in many ways by many different people. You can hook it to a manifold along with other gasses. If the cylinder pressure drops below what other gas on that manifold it, it can be back-fed some of the other gas and contaminated.
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On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 07:46:10 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"

If it is labeled USP, it has to be medical grade or someone will be sued. BTW if you go in the back of a hospital you will see "welding" bottles hooked up to their system. It is more expensive to have 2 types of oxygen at the welding store than to just have one. They have to watch contaminants, just for safety. In the presence of pure oxygen, lots of things you think are pretty safe, become explosive. Try some steel wool.
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Not only have I looked at the back of the hospital, I've hooked up the bottles. I've also filled thousands of bottles for medical use. Every one has a tag with the purity listed and usually a traceability batch number. Oxygen is oxygen, but unless it has proper certification, it is not for medical use.
The content may be the same, but the paperwork is not. Without the proper paperwork, it is not medical grade.
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On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 14:06:58 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"

... even if they come out of the same batch of bottles.
I guarantee you that if you find contamination in a bottle marked USP you have an actionable case. I agree the smaller bottles may be filled on site and do not carry the USP label so you get what you get. You put your finger on it, if you want them to write all the tracking numbers on a certification sheet, they will charge you more but that is for the lawyers, not the patients. The gas is the same.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Fine steel wool will burn pretty darn well in air too.
About 25 years ago one of my toddlers managed to touch some fine steel wool across the terminals of a 9 volt "transistor radio" battery which set the steel wool ablaze. The kid wasn't harmed, but I had to replace a kitchen floor vinyl tile. <G>
Jeff
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