Can this yard furniture be saved?

Here are pix of (I think) wrought iron yard furniture that I have allowed to deteriorate for years. Rusted to hell.
I really like the furniture, esp. the table has a lovely glass top that I put in. So I would like to rehab. them.
But is this feasible as a DIY job? In terms of time and effort?
If anybody thinks it's worth a try, what would you use to remove the rust and prep for repainting? I have heard good and bad about Naval Jelly. Is there a "professional" product that would do a better job?
TIA for any help.
This is a new Tiny Pic account, so hope it comes through OK.
http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m634/giborah2011/?action=view&current=yardfurniture.jpg
HB
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On 10/29/2011 10:00 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m634/giborah2011/?action=view&current=yardfurniture.jpg
It would be lots more work and expense than it is worth .. the mesh seats will still rust through. Apply the cost of rust remover, paint to a new set of furniture :o)
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I see a couple spots of deep rust, but the rest of it looks savable. I would take a crack at it, but this type of work is what I do. Your best bet is to get a HF wire wheel grinder, and knock off the rust down to the steel. Get some paint remover and take off the rest of the paint, of if just removing the rust is enough, paint over it, using something like Rustoleum, and use two to three coats. If you have a sprayer, spray it heavy.
And take time and care to learn how to use that little grinder, or it will kick your ass all the way to the ER. DAMHIKT. DO not buy anything but a CUP KNOT brush. Not the flat twisted wire one, but the one that looks like a cup. They're the easiest to control, get into tight places, and throw the least amount of wires off at high RPM. Wear a full face shield, cuz if you just wear glasses, those little high speed wires will stick in your face and lips and nose and forehead.
And next time, take care of it right.
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***Tx, man -- but it's not "mesh" seat - it's a solid metal lattice. That said, I tend to agree -- after checking prices at sandblasting places down in the industrial areas -- that it's more expense than I can handle.
Probably more work, too, if I heed the DIY suggestions of other kind poster about renting sand blaster; buying special wire brush for drill; draping furniture with acid-soaked sheets, etc.
So I'm figuratively starving to death between various bales of hay.
What I might have to end up doing is a quick and dirty fix to just get off as much rust as possible, then slap on a couple of coats of something sturdy -- thanks, guys, for recommendations. I HATE settling for a half-***ed job, but the numbers are against me.
Any more thoughts welcome!
HB
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Yes, they are. And I don't think that's wrought iron, it's more likely mild steel with some sort of galvanized coating, which is probably why those things tend to shed paint. -----
- gpsman
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On 10/31/2011 2:44 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Mesh, lattice...the stuff in your pix is the same as a table I tried to refinish, after removing rust...waste of time. One can purchase the mesh/lattice, I believe, but I couldn't remove ours so it was not an option for me.
Trouble with the lattice is that there are so many edges, and paint doesn't cover the edges of the mesh very well..very thin. I sanded and wire-brushed ours, got off as much rust as possible, used rusty primer, etc.
If it's doable, perhaps removing the mesh and replacing it with straps of some kind and new cushions? Still a good deal of work, but the table is nice enough I'd try to salvage
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wrote:

To be honest, it just looks like "cheap" thin painted steel. Looks like all tube and square tube. Faux wrought iron. Wrought iron is generally bulkier.and has form. This stuff will collapse if the rust takes too much off the tube. Not too much different than my rusted Chevy rocker panels.
Might have looked "cute" or "quaint" when brand new. I've seen a lot of stuff like this on the curb waiting for the trash man. Stuff like this is one reason plastic became popular.
--Vic
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Higgs Boson wrote:

Out of curiosity - how much was it?

That was probably your most cost-effective solution.

What's the price of a new table and a few chairs?
$250?
$500?

Give it away on kijiji (for $0, or maybe $25) and buy yourself a new set for $99 at walmart.
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@Higgs Boson:
Locate a local firm who could sandblast that patio set for you...
Then apply a good marine grade enamel and you should be good for years... Not a DIY project with all those tiny edges and the holes in the seats...
~~ Evan
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Higgs Boson wrote:

Lots of people would find that set some-what desirable, given it's design and construction. It helps that you have a glass table-top that appears to be intact.
Sand blasting is by far the most effective way to prepare them for a new coat of paint. I would just crack open your local phone book and look under sand blasting.
After sand blasting, look into getting them powder-coated. It's a coating that tough as hell and will last several lifetimes. In fact, a powder-coating place would probably sand blast them for you.

If you are bent on doing this yourself, then muriatic acid (available by the gallon for about $10 at pool supply stores and even Home Despot) will take the rust off pretty quickly, but it's nasty to work with depending on how much (or how little) you dillute it with water. This is also hydrochloric acid.
Applying it in this case is tricky. Probably take an old bed-sheet soaked in the acid and cover the items and tuck it into the nooks and crevices. After an hour or two the rust can either be rinsed off or a little light work with a scrub brush, then re-apply the sheet and leave it for another hour. This will also take off most of the old paint.
Rinse it off well with water, and try to get it dry as soon as possible after rinsing because it will try to rust a little if just allowed to dry on it's own. Do it on a warm sunny day if possible. And don't do it on your driveway or grass (if you value them that is). The acid will "clean" your concrete driveway where-ever it lands.
Some people will say that the acid will alter or change the surface of the metal (I think the term is hydrogen embrittlement) but I wouldn't worry about it in your case. This is more critical for other types of metal surfaces (like the sheet metal of a car).
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You can use a leaf blower to speed up the drying process.
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***Hey, that's not a minus, that's a PLUS. The concrete apron in front of the garage where the outdoor entertainment area is proposed hasn't been cleaned for umpty decades. Not car grease, just all kinds of stains & such. So I wouldn't necessarily care if acid got on the concrete. I have muriatic acid, but would need to get more.
Question: Would I need to buy special "acid-resistant" gloves to work with the muriatic on such a large scale?
I was vaguely thinking of renting a power washer when/if I get back to doing a decent job on the front porch* and using it on the concrete apron. Is that do-able? IOW, would it work better than the muriatic acid?
* I had to slap on a hasty coat of paint instead of getting it down to bare concrete, because out-of-towners were due.

Thanks for some cool info. Let me know about the power washer on concrete apron, special gloves, etc.
TIA
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YES. And do not even think of doing anything with HCl anywhere other than outdoors, with a breeze blowing, and you upwind of the workpiece. And do not store the leftover acid near anything that can rust or corrode.
Personally I do not like the idea of using HCl for this, I would far rather you used phosphoric acid for several reasons - first, HCl as you may have inferred from my previous message will release all sorts of nasty crap into the air that is not good for your lungs (molecular chlorine, and phosgene gas) as you use it, and also it can do some damage to the metal itself if it is in fact iron and not steel. Phosphoric acid is nicer to the metal and will also leave behind a phosphate coating when you are done. Unfortunately I do not know where you can easily obtain a large quantity of phosphoric acid, while the HCl is easily available both at your local pool supply and also likely your local hardware store.

You will really need to do both. You'll need to get the grease off the concrete somehow, and then etch it with the HCl (which is the right tool for the job for etching concrete.) You'll know it's not clean enough when you go to etch it; if there's any grease on there the HCl will not soak into the top layer of the concrete but will bead up on top like rain on a freshly waxed car hood.

Above and beyond the embrittlement concerns, I had a water manifold for a Packard V-8 engine that was really rusty and the water passages were starting to clog with all the rust and scale. I had the idea that HCl would make short work of it, but by the time that enough of the rust was gone for it to be considered "clean enough" the iron itself was starting to become spongy and flaky and would actually break apart if you hit it with a cold chisel. Not Good! I had another one in similar shape, that one I electolytically derusted; it took longer but had no toxic byproducts and it did not damage the good iron that was left.
as always YMMV...
nate
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On 10/31/2011 2:51 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Muriatic will eat the concrete before it touches stains...it is NOT a stain remover. P/W will remove a lot of stains, but you can carve your initials in concrete if pressure too high or you are too close.
Muriatic on concrete is a pretty interesting spectacle.
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Higgs Boson wrote:

If it's applied evenly, diluted about 25% acid to 75% water, and brushed around the concrete with a broom for about 10 minutes and then washed away, it will be brighter / whiter looking when it dries. Time is key - don't leave it sitting for too long on the concrete.
They sell all sorts of cleaning solutions for power washers, one of which is for siding and driveway. I think the stuff is slightly acidic for the same reason.

Just ordinary rubber gloves. I have a heavy duty pair of black rubber gloves that are so thick they can practically stand up by themselves. They go almost up to my elbows. I use them when I'm mixing and pouring concrete, but I also use them to spray down my ABS plastic concrete forms with acid to clean them. I spray it at FULL STRENGTH. I wear a relatively cheap respirator mask when doing this:
http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/71-07193.jpg
NOT like this:
http://www.easy-house-painting-tips.com/images/Disposable_Mask1.jpg
The acid isin't necessarily "bad" if you get it on your skin. It will sting if you get it into any cuts (most troublesome for fingertips). The fumes are what you don't want to breath. Stings your nose.
There is an alternate way to apply the acid instead of soaking it with sheets.
If you have some empty spray bottles (ie- windex or other glass-cleaning spray bottles or similar) then you can fill them with the acid and hand-spray the acid on your metal furnature.
I suppose you can also brush it on. Either way, you probably want to spread some plastic under them to collect the acid as it drips off. If you use the spray bottle technique, and fill the bottles all the way with acid (or a mix of acid and water) it will work ok for 1 bottle, but by the time you're done and the bottle is empty it may not work a second time. I think the acid gums up the seals in the spray bottles and they don't function very well a second time.
When-ever I leave a bunch of drill bits and driver bits, screws (etc) outside and they get rusty (say, after a few months - really nasty looking) I put them in a plastic bin and fill the bin half hot water and half muriatic acid and let it bubble away for 15 minutes. Everything comes out shiny and clean after rinsing them.

I have a 13 hp, 4000 PSI 6 GPM power washer, so I know what they can do, and they'd be great for taking off the loose and not-so-loose paint, but they won't take the rust off.

That's going to complicate things. Could remove it with laquer thinner (that's my solvent of choice for removing and cleaning a lot of things).

If you had a kick-ass power washer, and use a 15-degree spray head, that's all you need to clean a concrete surface. Just water is all you really need (no detergent or acid treatment). It's amazing how clean it comes out. A bit time consuming for a large surface. Power washers with big gas engines don't like to be run continuously for more than maybe 20 minutes (at least you shouldn't for the consumer-grade models). Deep cleaning a 10 x 10 patio pad or section of driveway is all you should do and then give the washer a break for 15-30 minutes before doing another section.
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On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 19:00:57 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson

It can be saved, but you have quite a few hours work there. Sand blasting is one mthod, but a couple of wire wheels can take a lot of rust off.
There are some good paint, but for the most durability, check out places that do powder coating. Looks good and is very durable.

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rustfree iron. Then paint things.
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On 10/30/2011 12:56 AM, Sjouke Burry wrote:

Same company that does sandblasting can probably put on a protective coating before the flash rust gets started. Look for 'metal finishing' in yellow pages. It will be a couple hundred bucks, though, and you will need to take it to them in pieces.
--
aem sends...

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On 10/29/2011 10:00 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m634/giborah2011/?action=view&current=yardfurniture.jpg
Wire brush and POR-15 will work.
Sand/media blasting and powdercoating is an option although might not be economically sensible
if you have lots of property and the ability to set up a container large enough to hold the pieces, another option would be electrolytic derusting, followed by POR-15 or similar paint. (I'd explain the process, but if you just DAGS for "electrolytic derusting" you should find lots of information)
good luck
nate
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On 10/29/2011 10:00 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m634/giborah2011/?action=view&current=yardfurniture.jpg
First off, if spray paint cans are in your plans, don't waste your time, it won't last.
If it was mine I'd sand blast it using my little inexpensive hand held sandblaster, then give it a good coat of 2K (2 part/paint and hardener)auto primer, then a coat of good auto paint. (Basecoat/Clearcoat if you really want to get fancy) You see, I've been taking a night course in auto body repair and painting everything in site. :-) Current project is my 37 year old garden tractor that I still use to mow the lawn. Eventually I'll start on the 55 Bel Air 2dr hardtop I bought for $350 when I was 15...... I'm 50 now.
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