Can't understand plat

[micky]

A friend moved to a more rural area, to a new subdivision.

There are one or more parts of her plat we don't understand.

She and 4 neighbors live on a private road, which comes from a newly built road. I guess this bigger road has been given to the county, but she seems to share responsibility for maintaining the private road. There is a little "bulge" in the public road at the end of it. Not as big as a cul de sac, and barely big enough to make a u-turn in.

Even though her lot is basically 4-sided, the plat shows 5 bands, each about 10 feet wide, going side-by-side down the private rood, to where it meets the public road (which has a bulge at its end.) OTOH, if one starts at the public road, each band ends when it reached the lot it is attached to.

Each band is either 10.25', 11,04', or 10.02' for a total of 52.6 feet. The private road is not that wide, so some of this land is off the road and looks like it belongs to lot owners along the way.

Do I have to explain further, because I'm having trouble describing this, or does some one here already know what I'm talking about?

Does she really own a strip of land reaching all the way to the bulge, or do they all share the road and the plat just represents it that way?

[hrhofmann]

A picture of the plat would make more sense than your description.

[gfretwell]

Typically the government will establish a right of way where a road is and that may be the actual ROW and another utility easement through your property outside that.

[RobertMacy]

Here in AZ, rural area, EVERY road is private, similar plat plan showing strips I can't build on. Turns 1 acre into 0.79 acre. Explains why when we were looking at houses we kept finding weird lot areas.

It is my understanding from a neighbor who has combined 1 acrea with other lots to make a single 6 acre lot that these lands were govt origin and they defined strips along at least two side to be allocated for 'public access' roadways.

Confirmed by thorough explanation from Zoning employees at County.

[Dean Hoffman]

Some cut.

A trip down to the county courthouse might be the best bet. Plus she'd see the history of the ground back to when it was first platted.

[Frank]

Where I live is something like that. When we moved in, the road was private and maintained by a maintenance corporation owned by the community. Several lots were oddly shaped along the road, particularly those at the entrance to the state road.

I've got a neighbor in back of me, outside our community, who has a pipe shaped lot where the pipe stem runs ~700 ft from the main plot where the house is for his drive to get to the state road.

[Pat]

I am not sure I am following, but could you be looking at easements? The lot owner owns the areas in question, but untility companies have the right to those strips for underground pipes (gas, water) and underground wires (cable, phone, power) and possibly even above ground poles and wires.

[Ivan Vegvary]

Many jurisdictions require lots to have frontage on a public road. What you describe gives everyone frontage (10 foot strip ) to that road. Ivan Vegvary

[trader_4]

I don't see how anyone is going to give you an answer worth anything without seeing it. It doesn't even seem to fit together, eg:

"> Even though her lot is basically 4-sided, the plat shows 5 bands, each

What does her lot being 4 sided have to do with what's going on down the private road that goes past other lots?. Seems to me it would be irrelevant. Her lot could be totally irregular, have

7 sides, what would it matter if the question is about something on the edge of the private road?

[micky]

Yeah, that's it. So she really does own the land. I was going to say: although of course it has to be used for the road, but I think the road is no more than 20 feet wide and the pipe stems total 52 feet wide, she owns 10 feet of one side of neighbor's yard, the side that abuts the private road. Interesting, since he's trying to claim 3 feet of her yard on the side where their two yards meet. Last fall he started mowing it and just now he was about to plant bushes on it. She's probably going to have to get a survey done. $1400, I think she said.

I'm sure her pipe-stem doesn't really help her, but I wanted us both to understand the situation.

The plat refers to a separate document about maintaining the prviate road, but the pipestems probably indicate how the cost is apportioned. She has to pay 1/5 of the her 600 feet (only 300 of which is stem), her neighbor to the right pays the same as she does plus 1/4 of his 300 additional feet. The next neighbor pays the same as #2 plus 1/3 of his

400 additional feet.... and the last one pays what the one to his left does plus the all of his 100 feet. I've wondered about that in the past and this is the only thing that is really fair.

Even though the plat shows 10 feet wide strips, in practice they probably divide the width of the road by 5 where there are 5 lots using it, or at least they bill it that way. Even if her 10 feet is all covered by grass.

[micky]

Besides utility easements there also exist walkway, driveway, and drainage easements, and though this plat doesn't mark any easements, not even utilities**, either the other document about the road goes into the driveway easement, or maybe it's in the deed, which I haven't read.

**The plat for my townhouse n'hood marks all of them, except I guess the cable tv runs in the back of the houses and that's not mentioned on the plat. I'm pretty sure they had cable tv when the project was planned, about 1974. Right? Maybe they thought it would be in the front of the houses where it's just called a utility easement, and what utilities are not specified, or maybe they just forgot about cable. Anyhow, there is also a 6' wide walkway easement in the back and the cable company used/uses that space.

But no, I wasn't talking about strips for utilities.

Frank and Ivan have it right. Thanks anyhow.

[hrhofmann]

What others are referring to as pipestem lots are called "flag lots" here in IL. the flagpole gives access to a road while the lot is set back from the road by the length of the flagpole up to the bottom of the flag.

[Frank]

Our deed restrictions called for us to be members of the maintenance association which took care of the road with annual dues and assessments. Fortunately we were able to give the road to the state to maintain and it is no longer a concern.

[EXT]

To easiest way to understand the way it is done in your community is to talk to the town clerk or contact the surveyor who laid out the lots and streets. These people know how they do things in their own area, not opinions from areas that are operated differently. The surveyor can translate what is your property, what is your neighbors and what is owned or controlled by the local government and how he laid it out.

[Tekkie®]

Oren posted for all of us...

And they often are. Much better since using GPS. The older stuff was fudge it a little until we close the plat. Distances weren't the problem so much but angle between lines was.

[micky]

Yeah, that's exactly it.

I hadn't heard either term before, even though I myself sort of have a lot like this. My flag pole / pipe stem is only about 20 feet long, so it doesn't look so weird or worth commenting on. (although I think my next door neighbor on my right thinks he owns it.)

My next-door neigbhor on my left also has such a lot, but his pipe-stem is only 8 feet long or less and barely noticeable, except that it's on the other side of the sidewalk that goes from townhouse to townhouse. I think he doesn't even know that he owns the land. (Unless I told him, but I forget if I did or not.) A neighborhood volunteer mows it when he mows his own lawn and 2 adjoining neighbors .

cc: homeowner

[gfretwell]

There have been 3 surveys of the lot next to my house over the years and there are 3 different "corner pins" driven in the dirt. The spread is about a foot.

[micky]

How did this happen? One by the owner and one by the next door neighbor? And the one by the owner favors the owner, and the one by the neighbor favors the neighbor?

Does it affect you?

My friend is about to hire a surveyor to put in pins, etc. and if she spends 1400 and it contradicts her, she won't be happy!

BTW, the lots there now, since 2007, are the first such small properties (an acre or two each) Before that it was a farm. Her house was there and the lawn planted before the neighbor started construction.

[micky]

The name of the original surveyor is in big print on the plats, from about 2007. Maybe he has enough information stored at his office that he can do the survey more cheaply, or maybe he'll think of her as a returning customer and she'll get a discount for that reason.

OTOH, maybe, maybe not. :-)

[Tekkie®]

[e-mail] posted for all of us...

Why don't you average it out and drive your own?