Can anybody explain what's happening?


Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring. This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house (see pic here http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image 98931qq3.jpg).
Did they screw up? Prior to having the work done, our original 40+ year old gutters never did this at any time of the year (rain or snow melt down)...
Been trying to get a hold of the roofer but wouldn't you know it they never seem to return our calls! : (
If anybody could offer their wisdom I'd really appreciate it...it will also help once I get a hold of our roofer...
Thanks in advance! Melanie
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There's been a whole lot of snow/ice build up and a very quick melt this year. That aid, this shouldn't happen. I'd say that melting snow has caused ice dams that have forced the water between the gutter edge and the roof edge, then it melted and you've got the water you see. It's probalby caused damage to the gutter/roof at these spots so it should be fixed. It was problaby a bad install, but this year has seen a lot of stuff liek this -- ice dams are quite common this year.I think the freaky weather and lots of ice has revealed problems that come form poor workmanship or faulty materials. So in a way it's a good thing -- better to find out now than ten years form now.
Get them up on the roof and fixing it. If they don't call you back, tell them you're getting a home inspection done and get a home inspector to check the damage and sign off on the estimated costs of repair, and tell them you'll be hiring someone else and suing them in small claims court. If they don't fix it, do that.

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There should be NO insulation in the overhanging area. I think what happened is that water made it's way under the edge of the shingles into the eaves area, and then ran down towards the house.
This is just shitty work, plain & simple. Did you take any pictures during the work? I think they forget the edge flashing.
To fix this, they will need to open up the overhang in a few spots to check for damage (there's a chance this could have gone into the walls).
It shouldn't take much to fix if they forgot JUST the flashing, but still, they missed something, and it just doesn't work.
You won't have much problems after the last of the snow is gone off the roof, but this needs to be fixed soon.
Chili Finger
Melanie wrote:

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wrote:

If you haven't had ice dams you have a roof leak
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wrote:
: wrote: : : >Just had new roof, eavestroughs with flashing installed last spring. : >This year we have these wet streaks running down one side of the house : >(see pic here http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image 98931qq3.jpg). : > : >Did they screw up? Prior to having the work done, our original 40+ year : >old gutters never did this at any time of the year (rain or snow melt : >down)... : > : >Been trying to get a hold of the roofer but wouldn't you know it they : >never seem to return our calls! : ( : > : >If anybody could offer their wisdom I'd really appreciate it...it will : >also help once I get a hold of our roofer... : > : >Thanks in advance! : >Melanie : : : If you haven't had ice dams you have a roof leak
Another possibility is improper venting causing humidity buildup on the underside of the roof.
The picture shows some soffit vents which is a good start. You should check to be sure these aren't obstructed in any way. You'll also need some sort of vent higher up the roof, usually near the peak.
You'll also want to check to see that any bathroom or kitchen vents vent directly to the outside, *not* to the attic space. The same goes for any plumbing vents. These may have been covered over by a lazy/incompetent roofing crew.
Some of these checks will require rummaging around in the attic. While you're up there, keep a lookout for any insulation that looks sooty or dirty, which is an indication of an air leak from the building.
Also examine the underside of the sheathing. There should not be any signs of moisture like staining of the wood, rust marks from nails, etc.
Ensure that there are baffles near the eaves to hold the insulation back and allow air to pass from the soffit vents up through the rest of the attic.
Be sure to post your findings.
Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler :)
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On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 00:18:30 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

You never had them before, but you don't say when you have them now.
After rain maybe, but I've learned not to assume things.
I would tie my ankle to door and lean out the window to find out if the eave is wet between the gutter and the wall. You might be able to see that it is while still inside the window, especially if you use binoculars, even for 3 or 4 feet, but I can imagine that the water runs thin and you won't be able to see it.
You can probably take a piece of paper or cloth on a stick and touch it to the eave and see if it comes back wet.
Maybe that is good enough. When I started I wanted you to touch the eave in the middles horizontally of the wet marks, to make sure the water was coming across the eave. But if you can tell with cloth on a stick, you may not need to tie your ankle to the door. (STill, better safe than sorry.)
If it is coming from the gutter, I guess it is his responsibility.

I guess you call another gutter guy and get an estimate on what is wrong, and what it will cost to fix. Best if he says on the estimate that the current gutters were installed wrong.
Even better if he says that on the paid bill, but if he says it, I would insist that he put it on the bill before I hired him to do it.
Because courts want some connection between your second bill that shows inferior work done by the first guy. The pictures will help a bit but a statement by an expert, anotehr gutter guy, will help much more.
And the next step is to sue the first guy if you are honestly convinced that the water is coming from the gutter and that it's the guttery guy's fault.
Maybe you should leave a message saying what you plan to do, hire someone else and sue for the cost, and that will get him to return your call.
There comes a point where one loses faith, and wants someone else. I don't know where that point is.
But you should also consider the possibility that his wife was in an accident and is in a coma and he's spending every minute by her side in the hospital, and can't be bothered with calls from anyone but doctor and the specialist. Or a hundred other possilities that could fairly prevent him from returning the calls.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't hire someone else, or sue, and collect your damages, but you shouldn't rush it except to prevent damage to your house, if that is going to happen. Nor should you delay excessively. But you shouldn't feel anger or hate.
We judge others by their actions and we judge ourselves by our intentions. Which is pretty much like saying that when we have a good excuse for not getting something done, we take that into consideration and don't blame ourselves (Heck, we do that even the reason isn't a good one.)

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wrote:

Of course the best time to do this might be while it is raining.
You also have to exclude the possibity that the wind is blowing the rain under the eaves, or things like that, so you need either to know it's not blowing that hard, or to change the piece of cloth or paper towel you are using, and touch places that are not opposite the damp spots on the wall, and these places should be dry.
Check as many places as you can.
If you get confusing results, then you may have to put a step stool there and get half your body out of the window and feell with your hands, drying it periodically, because you'll gather much more information more quickly with your hands.
And look with your eyes. You may perhaps see droplets beginning at the crack between the wall and the eave, while the eave 2 inches in front of that spot is dry.
Or use a tall ladder from the outside. (It looks like the second floor, but if you set the ladder right and are careful nothing will slip. Wear shoes with stiff rubber soles. Stiff is more comfortable on ladders.)
In order to fix my leaking convertible top, I spent over an hour in the car in the rain in the middle of the night with a flashlight tracking down exactly where the water was coming from. When I was done, I had found it, and I eliminated the problem in 20 minutes for 20 cents, and it never reappeared.

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Melanie wrote:

Like Peter D says, most houses in Winnipeg developed large ice dams around the troughs this year. They were larger than normal.
We had some freaky weather in January where we had two weeks of daily snow with the odd day above freezing mixed in. This caused the snow to melt, fill up the evestroughs, then freeze again. The snow kept building up and freezing causing a layer of ice that was several inches higher than the troughs.
When the spring melt came, this layer of built up ice acted as a dam and water pooled on the roof near the eves. Since it couldn't go down the eves, it leaked behind them. I'm pretty sure that's what you are seeing.
If it's just running down the outside of our wall, you're lucky. Many people had the water back up through the shingles and leak in the attic.
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x-no-archive: yes On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 22:39:31 -0500, Melanie

Water getting under the shingles and the saturating the plywood underneath. Getting in the soffit, and then running down the outside wall. Looks like the flashing wasn't done properly, should have atleast 18" under the shingles to the edge of the roof to prevent ice damns. Better have someone have a look at it very quick.
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On Mar 26, 10:56 am, snipped-for-privacy@mts.net wrote:

The Ice & Water Shield membrane (or approved equal - would somebody kindly offer up a generic term so I don't have to keep writing "or approved equal"? Thanks!) should extend from the edge of the roof up to about 3' inside the line of the exterior wall. The ice damming problem is usually due to heat from the house interior. Just dealing with the roof overhang portion won't solve the problem.
R
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wrote:

Our code calls it "eaves protection". Has a nice, blandish ring to it. Dontch think?
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wrote:

That phrase can also describe the membrane in a low slope roof, so I'd stay clear of that one.
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wrote:

It's possible if the soffit is sloping towards the wall.

They also monkeyed with the insulation, IINM....

They've got problems for sure. You'd have to be there to tell what it is.
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Melanie wrote:

Wow...thanks for all the input! I can tell there's a lot of experience here with these things!
We had new shingles and flashing and eavestroughs done last year..all by the same outfit.
We insulated the attic in '02 with bats to R50 making sure the vents were clear (hubby had to clear away some wood chips that were spread up there partially blocking vents). There's no insulation in the overhang. Hubby also removed and replaced old soffit vents last summer further clearing them out to ensure proper ventilation when refitting new ones. There are plenty of vents on the roof as well that the roofers installed.
We did not have icicles hanging from our eaves this winter/spring as I saw on other houses in the neighborhood suggesting heat escaping through attic/roof. NOt sure if these are ice dams?
Nothing vents to the attic. Only bedrooms and bath on second floor and no exhaust fan even in the upstairs bath. Plumbing vents were not shingled over either.
We never had this problem until we had roof/eaves re-done last year. This did not occur either during the rains following roof/eaves replacement...only with the spring meltdown. And it pretty much is only happening on the one side of the house.
We're working on getting another gutter person down to evaluate and estimate costs for replacment (thank you guys for that sound piece of advice!). Unfortunately these guys left a bit of a sour taste in our mouths right after the job was done which I won't get into here...hoping they'll come through and do the decent thing and fix this up!
In the meantime I'm going to get hubby to go up there and inspect things ...check for flashing at least.
Thanks again everybody!!
Melanie
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Look for streaks on the soffit. The gutter is below the drip edge, water is getting between the gutter and the fascia, there's no break on the soffit edge so the water slowly trickles across the soffit and to the wall.
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slowly
After adjusting the brightness and zooming in, it looks like the fascia and soffit are separate..second guess is water getting behind the fascia and running across the soffit.
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