Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?

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On 10/12/2014 3:17 PM, micky wrote:

The general answer is yes. My church has some flood lights at the end of the gymnasium, and also in the chapel. The facilities guys put in LED floods, which work fine. They say the bulbs cost twenty to thirty dollars each.
I'd test the bulb on the ground at night before taking it that far in the air. Rig up a lamp cord.
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wrote as underneath :

Air source or ground source Heatpump might be the answer for your water heating by electricity - worth a look? C+
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On 10/12/2014 3:17 PM, micky wrote:

Yes, you can buy LED lighting units which make your standard 100W incandescent flood bulb look like a dim candle. Readily-available off-the-shelf units which replace a big sodium vapor lamp are rated a 10,000 - 12,000 Lumens with 150W power input. Typically these will require an external motion sensor unit but that can be a real advantage in many situations where you are worried about false triggering.
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Thanks. I didn't know a heat pump water heater existed. As I skim thruogh the online literature, I read that heat pumps are good for room heating/cooling, but not so good for heating water. Some larger ones use a water tank for a heat conducting fluid, but the water is not meant to be consumed. There are heat pump water heaters: <http://energy.gov/energysaver/articles/heat-pump-water-heaters> but those are geothermal, not air source. Looking at prices, such water heaters start at about $1,000 plus installation. I haven't run the numbers yet, but I suspect the expected savings in electricity would not cover the cost of the installed system within its expected lifetime (or mine). I'll do some more reading and see where it leads. Thanks again.
My solution to the hot water problem is a nuclear powered water heater. Just a lump of some isotope that produces heat while breaking down. Fukushima should have plenty of the stuff worth mining. The nuclear water heater would be lead lined and buried for safety. Water temperature would be regulated by adding or removing radioactive pellets. There are also some safety issues that will need to be addressed.
Actually, this is all academic as we're having a water shortage in California and unless it rains this winter, there isn't going to be any water to heat. Meanwhile, I'll probably just do a better job of insulating the tank and hot water pipes and wait patiently for the rain and a nuclear water heater.
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"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message

GE has been pushing theirs for several years, with commercials featuring irresistibly adorable snow monkeys.
I considered getting one, but the dealer told me they don't work well in a condo, because it's hard to make a good "ground" connection.
Flash heaters have been around for at least 60 years (probably longer). My father sold appliances and used to talk about them. CU discussed them several years ago, and decided that their high cost and difficulty of installation did not make them (generally) a good choice. Of course, if you use substantial amounts of hot water all day long, they make sense.
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Trevor Wilson wrote:

Still quite mediocre. I've been building my own LED retrofits for indoor lighting, using Cree 100 Lm/W LEDs. When you add the power supply, you are down to 80 Lm/W or so, but that is still pretty good, even better than good CFLs.
Jon
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wrote as underneath :

Interesting, I am UK based and energy costs here are probably much higher here than in US which may alter the costings so much that a heat pump wont be feasible for you... Here is a link for info that might help: http://www.wharfplumbing.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Wharf-Air-Source-Heat-Pump-Docs.zip I checked with Ebay.com and ebay.co.uk - completely different answers if you feed in 'air source/water heat pump'. The low cost heatpumps are mostly produced in China anyway and I guess many are sold in the US for pool heating and air conditioning? But if your electricity costs are low then the payback time on the equipment may not make sense just for a little domestic hot water... Ground source is much more expensive on the outlay than air source! C+
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On 10/14/2014 2:43 AM, Charlie+ wrote:

I'd suggest to buy one, and try it in some sort of fixture, before going up the pole. I'd dare to guess the answer is yes, but you'd have to try it for yourself.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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True. The alleged savings of a heat pump water heater would be in the reduced operating costs due to improved efficiency. My hot water usage is so small that the initial entry costs (equipment, installation, plumbing, and permits) would negate any short term savings. Short term is important as I'm 66 years old, and would not want to invest in a technology with a break even point that occurs after I'm dead. I would do better with short term solutions, such as better tank and plumbing insulation, which provide an immediate savings with a minimal investment. (Actually, I'm looking for an excuse to buy a FLIR thermal camera to play with).

Thanks. The plumbing diagram of a complete systems, with gas water heater backup, and a typical installation, was sufficient to convince me this was not an option for me. The amount of construction involved in the installation alone is more than I could justify. I suspect that an air source water heating system would be more suitable for a larger installation, or for where the cost of electricity is much higher.

I don't know, but that seems likely. Swimming pool heating, hot tubs, air conditioning, and apartment building water heating seem like a better fit, where the savings in electricity would be larger than the amortized initial investment.
Incidentally, you might be amused at how water heaters are rated and priced. A few years ago, the bottom of my 40 gallon electric water heater filled with calcium carbonate causing the lower heating element to blow out. It was rusted in place and not easily replaced. The heater was old, so I decided a new heater was best. I went to the local Home Depot store and noticed that heaters were rated and priced by their warranty life as 6, 9, and 12 year heaters. Current prices are: <http://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Water-Heaters-Residential-Electric/N-5yc1vZc1u1Z2bcu0t?NCNI-5> $248, $338, and $548 respectively. I asked what was the difference and received a few bad guesses. The weight of these heaters was exactly the same, so there was no difference in tank design or construction. The 6 year heater used lower power elements, but that shouldn't effect the cost.
I eventually determined that the primary difference was the anode protection rod in each heater. The 6 year heater used a very small anode rod. The 9 year used a much larger anode. The 12 year had dual anodes. The problem was the rods cost about $25/each which is reflected in the $100 to $200 price difference between the three models. The 6 year heater had the port for the 2nd anode sealed shut, so I bought the 9 year model, and added a 2nd anode for a cost of about $25. Net savings from the 12 year model: $548 - $338 - $25 = $185 I also installed a permanent drain line, so that the calcium carbonate will not accumulate again.

Yep. That's the problem. The most efficient system is not always the most economical.
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On 10/14/2014, 7:13 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

...

Of course you should change your anode every few years - assuming you can extract it. The house we bought last summer has a replaceable anode but I can't unscrew it. The tank will fail in a year or two, but then I'm looking for one with a replaceable anode and do a bi-annual change.
John :-#)#

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wrote:

If you are sensitive to strobing you should be wary of lights that others complain of strobing . Some fluorescent lights I have appear to flicker in my peripheral vision. Not only is this distracting just because of the flickering or strobing, I also find myself constantly looking for whatever is moving. Using incandescent lighting along with fluorescent lighting cures the strobing or flickering effect for me so I have both in my shop. I can't detect the strobing by looking directly at the lights, it is only in my peripheral vision. This of course makes sense. I want to change to LED lighting and have been looking at several types and brands of lighting. Part of the problem is getting lighting that is the right color for me. The industry seems to be making LED lighting now that is pretty good for most folks so I am hopeful that in the near future I will be able to convert my machine shop and house to LEDs. Eric
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On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 08:48:37 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

But, since they don't make what suits your needs, just think of all the work changing things that you don't have to do.
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wrote:

I learned a few lessons trying to extract the anode rod from the old tank. With the tank empty, a long handled "torque amplifier" did a great job of twisting the water heater jacket into a simulated pretzel. I didn't know I was that strong. It might have survived if it had water inside and I didn't put my foot on the jacket when applying brute force. Learn by Destroying(tm).
When I mentioned the problem to a plumber, he indicated that it was a common problem, and that an electric or pneumatic impact wrench works much better. I didn't have a reason to try it, so I don't know if that's really a good idea. Also, when I installed the 2nd anode rod, I smeared it with some edible grease. Insulating it with Teflon tape doesn't seem like a good idea. In a year or two, try the impact wrench.
I found some instructions on how to remove the rod, which recommends WD-40 and an impact wrench. Getting the WD-40 out of the water is going to be interesting since it's not water soluble. <http://waterheatertimer.org/Replace-anode-rod.html
In my derangement, I didn't have enough clearance above the water heater to insert or remove the rod. They make anodes that are on a chain to make it possible to replace them without proper clearance, but I didn't buy one of those. So, I tipped over the water heater, inserted the 2nd rod, tipped it back up, and continued the installation. When it's time to replace either rod, I'll need to drain the heater, disconnect everything, tip it over again, and extract the rods. Not fun, bad planning, etc.
I'm not sure of the exact anode replacement interval. The previous water heater lasted about 15 years before the lime accumulation killed the lower heater element. I assume the lifetime is affected by whatever is in the water. Inspecting the anode rod would be helpful, but if it's stuck or difficult to remove, that might be difficult.
Good luck and how did we get from LED lighting to water heaters?
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wrote as underneath :
snip

snip
What are these tanks made of that they need sacrificial anodes (of magnesium etc. I assume)? As far as I know over here most/all these type of tanks and cylinders are Cu sheet and have no anodes of this type.. ! Informative post tho! C+
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Not copper. That would be far too expensive. The tank is made from steel, which is either enamel or glass coated for protection. The problem is that the glass or enamel can crack (or micro-crack) allowing the water to contact the steel and eventually corrode a hole in the tank. The sacrificial anode corrodes instead of the steel tank. It's exactly the same as the common zinc sacrificial anode used to protect steel hulls on boats.
Note: I am not a plumber, expert on hot water tanks, or hydraulic engineer. I just happen to have had some experience replacing my water tank twice in 35 years and found it useful to first read the available literature before making any more mistakes.
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Same method I used, except the heater had 40 gallons of water in it. It didn't move, but eventually the anode rod cap did.

Seriously? You think the teflon tape will insulate it? Pipe threads are designed for an interference fit, the pipe threads will cut through the tape with ease. The tape is just to fill the gap between the male & female threads.

Just bend the rods when you remove them, they're either magnesium or aluminum alloy on a wire. Replace with the bendable variety.

Inspect the rods every year or two, when you start to see mostly wire it's time for replacement.

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On 10/15/2014 4:07 PM, Jerry Peters wrote:

The ones I got off ebay (shopping for price) were dim. But, the ones they used over the church are really great.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 20:07:02 +0000 (UTC), Jerry Peters

No. It would reduce the contact area. However, the current through the anode is so low, it probably would make no difference.

With Teflon tape filling the gaps, I can re-insert the rod using less torque than I would with a metal to metal fit, thus making it easier to remove at a later date, and hopefully maintaining a leak proof seal. At least that's my theory, which remains untested.

This was a new rod that I was trying to insert, so bending was not an option. I should have purchased the sausage style of rod.

On my water heater (GE/Rheem something), I have two separate holes for the two rods. On some others, the 2nd rod is combined with the hot water outlet, making inspection rather awkward: <
http://waterheatertimer.org/images/Anode-top-of-heater-600.jpg
<http://waterheatertimer.org/Replace-anode-rod.html I'm tempted to add yet another hole and see if a borescope inspection camera will.
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On Thursday, October 16, 2014 10:48:44 AM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Could you pull the T/P valve and see that way?
Of course, you still have to partially drain the tank, but not much - they are usually most of the way up.
nate
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