CA. Fires - What's wrong with the inspectors?

[alvinamorey]

I dont live in or near California, but I am constantly seeing disasters in that state which in my opinion are due to stupidity in construction. Why so the building inspectors allow buildings to be built on steep hillsides? How many of these homes have slid down the hills in recent years? From watching the news, it would seem that there have been many. Now we have this firestorm. I do understand that the firestorm is a natural disaster (except those intentionally set according to the news reports).

The part that gets me is why are so many homes burning? We live in a time when every wirenut in our electrical system needs to be approved, and we can not even erect a simple shed without some sort of approval to insure it's safe. Installing a wood stove involves a major amount of paperwork, inspections, and most insurance companies won't even allow them without a huge increase in the cost of the policy.

I do understand that we all need to be safe, and the average homeowner needs to be inspected since most people do not know proper building methods, and there are lots of professional contractors who want to make an extra buck and use inferior materials or cut corners which can be a safety risk. At the same time, some of these rules can be rediculous and very nit-picky, causing added expense and hassles to the home owner.

With that said, it seems that the biggest reasons for these major fires in CA are not faulty wiring or causes INSIDE the home, but these firestorms. Therefore, would it not make sense to require a certain amount of open (mowed) space around buildings in areas prone to these firestorms, or at least prevent them from burning the buildings.

It seems to me that the inspectors overdo it as far as small details within homes but ignore the external causes. Not everyone is the country is in a firestorm area, but those that are should be reqired to maintain some space. This only makes sense.

[Kurt Ullman]

Inspectors normally don't have any control over these kinds of things. That is up to zoning and other people. Cutting back is also outside their jurisdiction. One of the annual rites of fire season is the inevitable newspaper article about some hooha because a homeowner or association wants to make an open space and environmental or other rules don't allow them to do so. The quickest way to stop most of these concerns is to not insure people who set-up in these kinds of areas, but the political fallout would be too great for the insurance companies to endure if they tried. The flood insurance people are finally coming to grips with maybe they shouldn't automatically insure people after the 2-3 time they are flooded out.

[M Q]

...

Such regulation do exist and insurance companies often require even greater space than the state regulations.

[Dave Bugg]

Ahhh, you aren't aware of the restrictions landowners are put under by all the 'environmental' regulations, are you? Much of the problem stems from the inability of landowners to properly control the underbrush, grasses, weeds, and other flammable vegetation. Their hands have been tied by the 'green' movement.

[scott21230]

Nothing wrong with building on a hillside, it's how you do it. Appeareantly homebuilders have never heard of "pilings".

[DonC]

I hear you but you ought to expand your question to other areas such as flood planes, hurricane risk areas, etc.

What really burns me up (no pun intended) is that people knowingly build in high risk areas and when the inevitable disaster strikes, they expect and demand that they get bailed out by tax payer dollars. Ditto for subprime loan victims. "You take the risk; you pay the price."

And our politicians won't draw the line for fear they'll lose votes.

There! I feel somewhat better.

[M Q]

Apparently not.

... Ah, that is the problem. If the only get your information from watching the news, you would think that:

1) Most all buildings in the southeast were destroyed by hurricanes in the past ten years 2) Most all homes in the midwest were destroyed by tornadoes. 3) The only homes in California that didn't get flattened by an earthquake in the past decade or two, have since been destroyed by fire. 4) The northeast is still digging out from last winters blizzards. (well, ok, may not that -- they dug out by June). 5) Most of the rest of the country lives in flood plains and get flooded every other year.

Seriously, we, as the rest of the country, have occasional "natural" disasters. Some homes are better built or situated to withstand these than others. We all get hurt as insurance companies indiscriminately overreact to the latest disaster.

[trader4]

If you want to go further down this route, then you could easily say nothing should be built in most of CA at all, because of the known earthquake risk.

In the case of the fires, there isn't an easy solution. If you required open spaces with nothing that will burn in them around each building they would have to be quite large to be effective. Think about what that would look like where you live. You'd have the new subdivision look, where some developer either buys an open farm tract or else clear cuts every tree in sight, and you wind up with a bunch of houses where you have zero privacy. Look out your back window and all you see is the house behind you. And if you did that in CA it would create other issues, like erosion, mudslides in hills, loss of more wildlife habitat, etc.

So far the last count I heard was they were up to 1600 homes lost. Which sounds bad and is certainly one of the worst. But it's not unprecedented compared to other events, like huricanes or earthquakes.

[HeyBub]

Santa Anna winds can blow embers for two miles. When these embers land on a cedar shake roof, well, there goes the house!

I guess in a fire zone (everywhere but Alaska), the "authorities" could require metal shingled roofs. Unless you build underground.

[Oren]

Santa Anna winds reached 100 mph. This prevented early use of planes and choppers to apply retardants on the fires. Firemen had to let it burn, and now play catch-up.

Those winds have blown all the smoke further West, so Las Vegas is spared the smoke issues, etc...

-- Oren

"The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!"

[Oren]

Notice how many burnt/burning homes have a tile (terra cotta) roof? Embers get under these, right to the plywood sheathing.

-- Oren

"The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!"

[Cheri]

That's true Dave. Last year during the Tahoe fires, about the only home that made it through the fire in one neighborhood, was that of a homeowner that went against the regs and cleared much more than he was

*supposed* to.

Cheri

[<h>]

Okkaaay, so how about commenting about why these idiots live in these areas in the first place? There are lots of placed ill-suited to human habitation; Mississippi flood plain, a LOT of SoCal, tornado alley, and most of Florida, yet people continue to build there and the gubmint continues to bail them out every single time. It&#39;s ridiculous that those of us living in sensible places with no tornados, floods, mudslides, wildfires, hurricanes, etc. have to fund the constant re-building of those who insist on living where they shouldn&#39;t. You want to live there, great, but I&#39;m NOT going to pay for it. Yes, we have the occasional flood here in upstate NY, but only the 10-20 homes of idiots who feel compelled to live right ON the river. Why should they be allowed to do this and still get bailed out by the gubmint? While it&#39;s great farmland, no one should have a house on the Mississippi flood plain for just this reason. Crops, sure. Houses, not so much. Same with much of SoCal. It burns, it slides, it quakes, DON&#39;T LIVE THERE. Duh.

[Cheri]

grasses,

habitation;

Hey, you will get no argument from me there. Same thing in the San Francisco Hills, the homes slide off, and they rebuild.

Cheri

[Oren]

Do you depend on your local "gubmint" to fix and repair roads in New York (upstate) ? Who takes away downed trees from blizzards?

Californians: coming to an area near you, soon!

-- Oren

"Painting is the art of protecting flat surfaces from the weather and exposing them to the critics."

[Oren]

CA or NV side of the lake?

-- Oren

"Painting is the art of protecting flat surfaces from the weather and exposing them to the critics."

[gfretwell]

I agree "environmerntalSM" is a cult religion but there are responsible ecologists

I&#39;m sure there were educated ecologists who wanted to do small prescribed burns around those houses and the homeowners wouldn&#39;t let them because they did not want the smoke and to have to look at burned ground for a couple months. The DEP folks have the same problem in Florida. Wonder how that is working out for them now.

[Dave Bugg]

My comment wasn&#39;t directed at responsible ecologists.

Nope, that isn&#39;t the issue at all. The issue are is regulations prohibiting mechanical clearing of the grounds of high brush and tilling the ground for firebreaks where it would be appropriate.

[dickcheney]

THEN THE SOLUTION IS TO STOP BUILDING EVERYWHERE IN THE USA.

ATTENTION AMERICANS, Everyone must abandom their homes now. You have 24 hours to evacuate. This is a new law, and since I am chief head of the government. Anyone who does not leave within 24 hours will be arrested and go to prison. LEAVE NOW.

California must be abandoned entirely. We&#39;ll just push it into the ocean, drop a few nukes on it, and get it over with.

As you leave, please deposit your firearms in the provided dumpsters. We will no longer allow anyone to own firearms in order to prevent looting and killings.

Dick Cheney

[Edwin Pawlowski]

It is evident you don&#39;t live there and have never visted the places in question. Especially during the Santa Ana winds.

Uh, they do and yes, it helps.

Perhaps you should tell them. I bet they never thought of that. Wow, thanks for the tip and I&#39;ll pass it on to my relatives in the San Diego area. Since you are willing to share this tip, how much space do you think should be kept clear when 90 mph winds with 5% RH are carrying hot embers?