Burnt electrical outlet and plug

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wrote:

Going back to the X0 terminal of the transformer? That is how it works.
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In

Uhh, it's the return path (ckt completion) for the Hot! It's the Earth ground that should have no current in it.

Wow; what's you do, rewrite the physics of electricity?
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Thats sounds like a good explanation to me. I would also question the draw of the appliance. It burned two receptacles and it's not a factory plug. There is a good possibility that it should be a 20 amp plug and not 15 as shown

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Good possibility? It is a definite FACT. With the 30 amp rating of the conditioner,a 20 amp plug would be a requirement. Particularly on a 20 amp circuit.
And I'm still asking if this is a ferro-resonant regulator device.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Don't assume a 30A rating requires a 30A plug. That rating is the maximum input current, and you can absolutely change the plug to a lower rating if the load on the conditioner is less than full load. The circuit protection is at the panel feeding the receptacle, so if that receptacle is on a 15A or 20A circuit it is fine. If the load is too high the breaker will trip.
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On 1/10/2011 10:09 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Look at the pictures. Wouldn't you agree the breaker didn't trip?
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Tony Miklos wrote:

We don't know what size breaker is on the circuit. We don't know what the actual load amperage on the circuit is. It's entirely possible that a bad connection caused overheating of the contact at well below even a 15A load.
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On 1/10/2011 2:54 PM, Pete C. wrote:

I know that. Are you confirming what I wrote or disputing something? Read the last sentance of the post up a couple levels.
It reads: If the load is too high the breaker will trip. So if the breaker didn't trip, then maybe, just maybe someone is wrong when they say "a 15 or 20 amp circuit is fine". Maybe if it had a 30 amp outlet it would have made a better connection and never happened?
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Tony Miklos wrote:

In the past I have changed 30A plugs on a UPS out for 20A plugs, since the application had the UPS operating well below it's maximum ratings (mostly sized for run time). This was perfectly safe since the 20A receptacle was protected by the 20A circuit breaker, so if someone improperly added loads to the UPS the breaker would simply trip.
Receptacle contact areas don't dramatically increase with current rating. Yes, a 60A contact is notable larger than a 15A one, but there isn't a lot of difference between a 15A and a 30A in many connector styles (twistlock in particular).
The point here is that this is likely the result of a loose connection in the plug, and nothing else.
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wrote:

It is a 20 amp receptacle according to the OP, and the device (still has not been established white kind of "conditioner") is rated at 30 amps.
It NEEDS a 20 amp plug. To handle up to 20 amps input current.
If it is a Ferro conditioner, that means it's good for about 15 amps out. They are quite effective heaters.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

15A and 20A plugs / receptacles have the same size contacts. There is no difference in the actual current handling capacity between the two.
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In wrote:

That's such a screwed up fiasco from what I've seen/read, that it has to have a 30A fuse and likewise be wired for "stopped rotor" & whatever applies. We have no idea really what the situation is, wire gauge, voltage during draw and resulting damage to inductive parts (motors, relays coils, etc.). What they need to do is get a real electrician in there to install things correctly; they've made way too many bad choices. And then of course have it inspected. It would not pass inspection right now.
HTH,
Twayne`
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In

The wire and connectors must be capable of carrying 80% of the load of everything on that ckt breaker. Since it's a 15A plug/receptacle and one piece of equipment is 30A I'd have to surmise they're using a time-delay breaker for one, that lets them slip by without popping the brkr, but : It is NOT to code! OSHA would have a field day with it, too. As would NFPA. I'd be interested also in what gage wire is being used to the box and to the other components drawing current? Sounds like a pretty dangerous place to work to me.
HTH,
Twayne`
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On 1/9/2011 10:28 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

That is what I think also. That is an after market plug (note the screws holding it together). It was not assembled correctly with a poor connection on the ground side. Replace it and the now damaged outlet.
You can always feel the plug and see if it is unduly warm, always a sign of a poor connection.
Jeff

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In

Since non-residential wiring is often stranded wire, that's a very good possibility.
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On 1/10/2011 4:00 PM, Twayne wrote:

I'm confused what you are referring to, but curious. What plug is wired with solid?
Jeff
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On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 19:18:01 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com"

If this was a cheap receptacle, that is the expected result. Put in a spec grade receptacle (it will be in a box, not loose in a bin) and it should be OK.
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Bad (high resistance) connection between the plug & receptacle neutral contacts.
I'm betting that it took a fair amount of time (many months) for the problem to manifest.
Get a better grade of receptacle & plug. Make sure that the plug withdrawal force is good.
The fuse (circuit breaker?) never did its job because the amperage draw was lower than its rating.
cheers Bob
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This is are arc-fault breakers are supposed to help. I'm with you, though. A better outlet/plug, properly installed, would have avoided this problem completely.
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snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

If it is a high resistance connection (which it may well be) there is no arc. One may develop later.
If there is an arc, it is a "series" arc. The original AFCIs won't detect it; they need an arc of around 50A (line to neutral or ground). The AFCIs installed 2008 and later can detect a series arc. AFCIs have only been around since 2002 and only for residential (this is office). But wait a few years. Required use is creeping like a slow plague in every NEC revision.
--
bud--

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