Builder did not leave enough room for standard fridge

[JimR]

Kris -- "Counter-depth refrigerators" are a standard item and help achieve a "built-in" look. From the picture it appears the corner cabinets are mostly wasted volume due to inaccessibility no matter what kind of refrigerator you buy, and when you add the larger refrigerator that part of the kitchen is going to be unattractive and appear very crowded. Also, with the larger refrigerator your cabinets over the refrigerator are going to be very difficult to use.

If this were my house I would do two things --

(A) Extend the lower corner cabinet out and provide a double-opening door, with a lazy-susan interior to let you use the space. This will give you a lot more cabinet space for things like pots and pans and storage units than you now have. I would also consider doing the same thing with the upper corner cabinet, although that space is more accessible. This also means a change to the counter-top to fit the new counter dimensions. Save the old cabinet and use it in the garage for storage or tools.

(B) Buy a counter-depth refrigerator to make that end of the kitchen more usable and appear less crowded. This will also make the overhead cabinets more accessible and useful. (If my budget were big enough in this case I might even try for a built-in refrigerator, but now you're talking real $.)

Making these changes will provide a better appearance and more useful kitchen.

Sidenote: With new construction I don't think these sorts of conflicts are unusual, and a good homebuyer ought to hold an additional 10-20% of the price in reserve to meet needs that weren't anticipated when the project was first planned -- whether it's interior upgrades, new equipment, or changes that create new requirements such as for irrigation, storm protection, revised building codes or a security system. -- In other words, I don't think problems like this are unexpected, they're just imperfections that will cost money and have to be dealt with. If the contractor was also the designer you may have some leverage, but if he is building to someone else's design these may be costs you have to deal with. Been there, done that -- Regards --

[dadiOH]

Realtors sell houses. Realtors are not builders. Realtors are not construction superintendants. __________________

That depends upon the plans...if it was built according to plans he

*owes* you nothing; if not, he is obligated to correct to specs...if he doesn't want to/won't do that, THEN you can haggle over who pays what.

[kris3432]

The problem that I am having with my realtor is that I have been told that I can't contact the builder directly, but have to go through her with any problems. The problem with that is that when I have a problem and tell her about it, she acts like it isn't a big deal. Then I have someone contacting the builder who doesn't seem to agree that there is a problem. I would prefer to deal directly with the builder. I feel like the realtor shouldn't have to go to the builder with every little problem, that I should be able to discuss things with him. Oh, and we do have a signed contract with her... she is a buyer's agent. The problem we are running into is the her boss and broker, is the seller's agent... and he basically makes her handle both sides.

We didn't have much of a choice but to build the house long distance, we are military and did not really have the budget to live in a rental while waiting for something to be completed. We drove down here a couple of times to deal with problems directly, but we were told by the realtor that she handles long distance builds all the time and she would go buy the building site and take pictures and make sure everything was on track. But, due to some vacations she went on and the seller's agent went on it put a lag time between addressing my issues. The plans to the house were shown to us by the realtor and I am not entirely sure whose plans they were. I believe they were from another local builder, that our builder could have got the plans for, but instead he just redrew the plans himself. When we finally received a copy of "his" plans we found several "issues," but he had all ready poured the foundation before we received them. So, it resulted in a few of our wants getting left out... and we just lived with it.

I will never build another house with this arrangement. In the future I will want to deal directly with either the builder or someone in his office... not a realtor that they go through.

The plans that we received are just an overhead plan, that does not outline what kind of cabinet goes where, all we see is countertop... and no exact measurements. From what I can tell the counter placement is with an inch or two of being correct... but without exact measurements it is hard. Hindsight is 20/20 and I know what I should request from the next builder.

I think we are going to go ahead and order a counter depth refrigerator at our cost and hope that it will work. We hope that the builder will be willing to change over the front of the cabinet to a single door design and get rid of the problem drawer if it is an issue.

This is the first house we owned, and I had no idea what to expect. I guess I just figured that the builder knew what he was doing and when he said that the spot would hold a regular-sized fridge that he knew what he was talking about.

I think counter-depth fridges are becoming pretty standard now and we shouldn't have a problem replacing it in the future. I just wish it didn't cost double for a smaller fridge... but that is a entirely seperate complaint.

A couple responses to your direct comments:

1) Many of you have suggested just not using the drawer.... my personal opinion is that this is a NEW house.... and it would look pretty ridiculous to have a drawer blocked by the fridge.

2) dpb - As for not crying until I have something to cry about... I was posting her to get some opinions on how I should handle the problem.. not complaining about the problem... I do not want to go off on the builder/realtor if the majority of people I discuss this with says it is not their problem/fault...

3) Pat - We have a contract with the realtor, she is a buyer's agent for us.

4) Marilyn and Bob - not sure how if a narrower cabinet would fix the issue...

5) Rudy - the enitre "blind" corner cabinet is accessible... just very hard to get to

6) AEM - I wish a lazy susan cabinet would fit there... unfortunately it requires another 10 inches... then the spot will be too narrow for a standard fridge

7) Homer - I am entirely confused by your response... Yes we did build it long distance... but at the same time I believe the builder doesn't get a license to mess up on things because I am not here to catch them. I am not mad at the realtor for not catching the problem... because it was not incredibly obvious until you measured it. But, I did ask about the fridge opening multiple times and was told that it would fit a standard fridge.

8) JimR - We did budget more money for the house than originally planned... but I believe the fridge issue is something that should have been caught by the builder or the cabinet designer. The builder did not want to get the original plans and insisted on creating them himself... so I am not quite sure where he got the kitchen cabinet layout from. I do agree with you that a cabinet-depth fridge would be the best solution even if he will fix the cabinets for us. Unfortunately there is not enough room in the spot for a lazy susan.

9) dadOH - not sure where you got the idea that I think my realtor is my construction foreman... Unfortunately I am required to go throuh her when I find a problem.

Thanks for all the replies. I think we know how to address the situation with the builder/realtor tomorrow.

Kris

[Oren]

In NV an agent representing both sides has to disclose this and document it with your signature; to acknowledge that your know this in advance.

An agent that would minimize my concerns would really "tick" me off. Tell her you will NOT close on the house, without resolution of these concerns.

How long before your agreement/contract expires? Then fire her!

File a complaint with a state/local agency governing realtors.

Just my 2 cents.

-- Oren

..through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

[dpb]

Says who? Doesn't the builder have a listed number? What prevents you from calling him/his business directly?

This, then, almost undoubtedly is in direct conflict w/ your state's rules and laws on disclosure and fiduciary responsibility of the agent to the client. I would make a _BIG_ issue of it w/ whatever is the state governing/oversight organization for realtors. You could possibly get very quick change in attitude by involving them.

...

I wouldn't accept that as the only solution prior to discussing it w/ the builder and seeing what other options they suggest/are amenable to unless you are really quite comfortable with that. Remember this house would presumably be where you're going to be for quite some time to come.

Well, it does from one point of view which is probably all he actually thought about when asked -- it's a wide enough hole for almost any "standard" and I suspect that's the only dimension he even thought about at all.

Well, it isn't really separate -- the issue wouldn't have arisen w/o the poorly laid out cabinet arrangement/choice. Again, I'd not settle _too_ easily up front unless it really is ok, not just will-do.

I agree 110% on that one...

I think you took it slightly differently than I intended -- what I meant was that the builder took care of the previous issue and handled it quite satisfactorily iirc, recognizing it was indeed a problem. I'd not assume he won't deal with this as well until _after_ the direct conversation -- and I'd _demand_ it from the realtor before I settled for anything. I thought it a little premature to raise the question in the manner and trying to point that out. Asking for alternative solutions to the arrangement, however, totally appropriate.

The only place where I can see the builder getting a little bowed-in-the-back in resisting is that the problems don't get raised until work is essentially complete. That's apparently in part due to the doofus realtor you're stuck with, but it's also a problem that you haven't been on site enough. IIRC it was a couple hours away -- and I know that's a lot of extra time/effort, but I think one of you should have found a way to get up there more frequently. But, that's a "live and learn" and as you say, you know now not to try it this way again...

I'm hoping it all comes out well, and thanking you and your hubby for your military service. I do strongly suggest that you immediately find out who is the oversight for realtors in the subject area and get some advice from them--many states have an ombudsman-type position for such. Perhaps there's also some legal advice easily available on post you can ask for clarification of standing w/ the realtor and see if there isn't a way if this is, indeed, a buyer's agent arrangement that you get what you're supposed to get and no less.

--

[John Grabowski]

I presume that you have an attorney representing you for the closing. I also presume that you have not provided full payment towards the purchase price of the house. Instruct your attorney to contact the realtor and say that final payment will not be made until certain issues are resolved to your satisfaction. The realtor is working for a commission. If you jeopardize that she should get her rear in gear.

[in2-dadark]

I have to wonder Kris, did you research this builder b4 going ahead with this? Did you check him out with the BBB or get references? Did you see other homes he's built..?

This does NOT strike me as the kinds of mistakes an experienced builder would make. And I'd have to wonder about what (structural?) mistakes he's made that you wont immediatly see until it's too late.

SInce he provided the floor plan, he's totally on the hook. Since you signed on with HIM, unfortunatly, you're stuck with him..But we have to learn somehow..

I purchased a new (vacation) home (I've owned others in the past) that was already under construction (a couple of weeks to finish, spec home) last year and nothing has approached this type of unprofessionalism I see with your builder. You should find MORE good things the closer you look at a new home (in these modern times) not more BAD things. I came from 1200 miles away to do so and I had 5 months in which to do it before returning. But I researched him online before hand and with the BBB, etc..And I didn't use an agent.

As far as your real estate person goes, trust me they are representing THEMSELVES no matter what the paperwork says. And filing a complaint is a waste of time. OTOH, if more people did it en masse then maybe it wouldn't be (who knows).

[dadiOH]

Which is what I don't understand. Why is a realtor even involved?

Who hired the builder? Who is his contract with? You? Then you should be dealing with him. Her? Then he is building the house *for* her and you are buying it *from* her. Is he a mass builder and she is handling the purchase for you? Then neither of you have any input to the builder.

[Marilyn & Bob]

Others have commented on this. This seems to be a clear conflict of interest as you say her broker boss is working for the seller. Don't know about your state's laws, but I think you should consult your attorney and the state Attorney General and the state realty board. There is something wrong here.

The purpose is to put another filler in to compensate for the 6 or 7 inches that the refrigerator now sticks out preventing the door and drawer to open, A narrower door and drawer would then be able to open.

I agree.

[Oren]

If the OP walked into builder models. Once I did ( 10 days to buy a house across country ) and had an agent register me. The builder sales office and Salesperson handled any concerns I had. Made any addition I asked for, etc.

Still, the salesperson was not a realtor, but my agent here dealt with the builder sales office d8=

The OP agent/broker relationship in this mess; warns me....

-- Oren

..through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

[Tim Smith]

That's a regional thing, so depends on where they are. In many parts of the country, an attorney is usually not used for closing.

[Oren]

If the agent breached the agreement/contract. FIRE her!

A lawyer can determine this, easily :-)

-- Oren

..through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

[Oren]

Yes. Title Company AND Title Insurance.

-- Oren

..through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

[dpb]

That's a personal mistake thing, not necessarily regional...biggest investment most people make in their lives and they wing it...to save a few hundred bucks, maybe. :(

--

[Oren]

Then you're Nifonged!!

-- Oren

..through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

[EXT]

Sound great -- as you have found out there is NO SUCH THING AS A STANDARD SIZED FRIDGE -- any more than there is a standard sized person. They designed it, they should supply you with a list of makes and models that will fit their cabinet design, or, hopefully, you can get them to re-do the kitchen -- fat chance.

[EXT]

You may "have" to go through the realtor, but in my experience, blanketing everyone responsible helps cover-ups. Send a written letter to your realtor, but copy it to everybody you can find, her boss, the builder, the head of the construction company, the cabinet supplier, hunt down names and broadcast your problem to everyone. It usually gets some results, especially in getting the person who should do their job to actually do it. More results than the Usenet.

[Tim Smith]

Who said anything about winging it? The title company in most of the western US handles closing. There would be no point in bringing a lawyer. Here's how it works.

The title company receives all the paperwork from the mortgage company, and arranges for the seller to come in and sign all the documents the seller needs to sign.

When this is done, the title company notifies the buyer, and tells the buyer the size of the cashiers check he needs to bring (or the amount of money the buyer needs to wire to the title company, if he prefers that option), and makes an appointment for the buyer to come in.

The buyer comes in, and signs all the relevant documents and hands in the check.

The title company goes and files the deed for the buyer (and for most of us, the other document that gives the lender their interest in the property), and then notifies the real estate agent the buyer is dealing with. The buyer can then go pick up the keys from the agent.

(I say "title company" above, but I suppose technically it is the escrow company for much of it, but they are usually the same company).

Here's a list of how closings are handled in each state:

Note that the are sometimes significant variations within a state. Look at California for example.

[aemeijers]

Shrug. For my last closing, I the lead contract attorney at work for a referral, and he said 'don't bother'. Local custom here in MI is pre-printed boilerplate forms, and that is all the realtors and title companies are willing to use. No addendums, no nuthin'- just check the right boxes for the type of sale, fill in all the money and insurance blanks, sign a couple of checks, and done in 20 minutes. It did go much easier than an attorney-handled closing down in Louisiana, which took well over an hour, and six or severn checks for the non-negotiable junk fees. (I think I paid the pizza delivery fee for the office that day.)

As low on the food chain as my real estate purchases are, I'm not losing sleep over it. If it was a multi-party deal with weird financing or anything, I would insist on attorney, but the deals I have personally been a direct party to, were about as complex as buying a car. 1 seller, 1 buyer, no open liens, etc.

But having said all that- while IANAL, I have worked with all sorts of contracts for many, many years, so the concepts and terms are not greek to me. For someone that has never signed on the dotted line, or at least taken college-level business law and contract law courses, a consult with an attorney or paralegal, or maybe one of those community college courses on 'how to buy a house', may be time and money well spent.

aem sends...

aem sends...

[Norminn]

clipped

Builder pay for your error? No way. It is part of the plan you should have considered, and hindsight is always 20/20 :o)

Hubby and I were looking at cabinet depth fridge, but they were too high for our kitchen (unless we raise a wall cab.)...prices weren't that different.

Can't tell by the photo what is in the corner to left of frigge...if not too late, can all cabinets be moved forward from the back wall to allow for deeper fridge? If the kitchen work has progressed too far, then it would cost more, probably, to move cabs. than to pay more for fridge.

We have a drawer limited by the fridge, but I just keep small stuff in it that doesn't require it be opened all the way. Price and size of your kitchen appliances should have been planned for from the git-go. Enjoy your new house .. it's pretty.