Bryant propane heater can't possibly be wired reversed (red LED blinks constantly)

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On 12/27/2014 7:48 PM, Danny D. wrote:

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On Saturday, December 27, 2014 7:48:32 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:

For anyone here not familiar, on the X5 when the window regulator fails, it sends the window glass crashing down into the door, usually breaking it into a million pieces.
In decades of driving many vehicles, everything from a Fiat to MB, I've only had one other window regulator fail. That was on a MB when I took it to a car wash when it was 20F out and later went to put the window down to pay a toll. The window was frozen stuck, and it broke the regulator. The window was fine. On the BMW I've had 3 go, taking out 2 windows.
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trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:10:29 -0800:

Other than the expansion tank exploding, the CCV clogging in cold weather (and hoses tearing in all kinds of weather) is notorious. At least with the DISA and ABS you can remove the parts easily. The CCV is *buried* in there.
Heck. It's just a PCV system with a fancy name and a dozen parts.
Out here, in California, they don't get the "mayo" that you get in cold weather, but our hoses still break (BMW "redesigned" them with a wider angle) and our dipstick guide tubes (which are an integral part of the CCV system!) clog up just as much.
The V8 is even worse, as it has extra parts inside the engine covers near the crankshaft and timing chain (I'm glad I have the I6, which is simpler).
I don't think a single E39 has ever gone without having that CCV system replaced at least once, and maybe twice by now.
I'd rather have a PCV valve!
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On 12/27/2014 7:52 PM, Danny D. wrote:

and made sure of that. I've seen that problem.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 19:57:05 -0500:

It's supposed to arrive on Tuesday due to the holidays. I gave up, until then. Am working on the neighbor's bridge, which blew down in the recent storms. (Pictures to follow separately.)
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On 12/27/2014 9:41 PM, Danny D. wrote:

Is your place cold enough to need heat? I thought California was all sunny and warm all year around?
What are you using for heat, now?
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trader_4 wrote, on Sun, 28 Dec 2014 04:10:58 -0800:

Unfortunately, if you own a BMW, and if you do all your own work, you're forced to learn a LOT about the thing.
What people do to prevent the concentric-ring clogging, is drill a series of holes in the OUTER metal tube, taking care not to drill through the inner tube (which is the dipstick guide tube).
There is a redesigned dipstick tube, but that used to cost an arm and a leg (although I think it has come down in price since it was originally introduced).
Me?
What I do is unclog it every few years, when I do the CCV or when I have to track down a vacuum leak in the CCV hoses.
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trader_4 wrote, on Sun, 28 Dec 2014 04:10:58 -0800:

Yeah. Did you ever try to find the EGR valve? On my M54, there isn't an EGR valve. They do that function with the dual camshaft VANOS instead. It's really crazy stuff.
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Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sun, 28 Dec 2014 07:54:27 -0500:

The house has three separate furnaces. Two are down, and have been down for a couple of years. We usually don't bother using them.
It rarely gets below freezing - maybe once a year or twice at most. No snow (a dusting once every five years).
We use warm blankets. Lots of them! The only problem is I'm soured on down. I bought perhaps ten down blankets over the years, mostly at Costco, and while they're soft, they tear and bunch up in the wash, so much that I'm not going to buy down ever again.
We have goose feathers all over the house.
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On 12/31/2014 12:01 AM, Danny D. wrote:

heat before you have to eat your grand kids.
So, the Bryant in question was ... uh.... the last straw? Furnaces of a feather flock together? One bad apple done spoil the whole bunch?
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Danny D. wrote, on Sun, 28 Dec 2014 02:41:33 +0000:

Woo hoo! Who would have thought a stainless steel rod could fail!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8565/15533431543_e56ed2ba81_b.jpg
The moment I put the new one in, the heater worked like a charm!
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7522/16151262701_9939c96820_c.jpg
The meter still read 0.0 microamps, so, I'm sure the fuse was already blown before I got it!
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7563/15965856430_2e5a45a263_c.jpg
You guys were right all along!
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On 12/31/2014 12:05 AM, Danny D. wrote:

have "some" heat, now. I hope it's enough to keep your house comfortable. No resorting to canibalism for your family, this year.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 12:06:02 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:

So, what's the logical conclusion here? That something changed in the properties of the metal? That's about all that's left, isn't it? The insulator isn't shorted, it had continuity from tip to wire, etc..... Funny thing, in the limited reading I did about flame sensors, I didn't see anything about the metal needing to be special. Only that it needed to be clean and you cleaned it up with sandpaper or steel wool, etc. I'm left wondering what the actualy failure was.
Good to hear you got it going though and good info for the future.
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Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:01:01 -0500:

We're still feeding them to fatten 'em up first!
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7522/16152459102_83f6b75fee_b.jpg
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On 12/31/2014 12:09 AM, Danny D. wrote:

I'd eat Gretel first, Hansel can still help fix the overhead deck you had blow down.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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Danny D. wrote, on Fri, 19 Dec 2014 23:56:58 +0000:

Update!
The heater certainly hasn't been turned on in a year, and maybe in two years (as last year was warm). I don't remember, but, anyway, the problem first looked like a reverse wire but the code was basically constantly blinking.
As far as I can tell, that just means whatever old code was in there has been wiped from the memory, so, it just blinked incessantly to tell us that.
Anyway, we narrowed the problem to the fact that the flame wasn't sensed, and, that meant only one of three things: 1. Bad flame sensor 2. Bad ground for the flame sensor circuit (through the flame) 3. Bad control board sensing of the flame sensor circuit.
I cleaned the flame sensor to no avail. Replacing the $20 flame sensor solved the problem!
It's amazing that a simple stainless steel rod could fail, but, it apparently did! Who knows why or how.
The way the flame sensor works is that 90VAC (nominal) is sent to the flame sensor, which is just a steel rod with a single electrical connection. When there is a flame, electrons flow from the steel rod to the chassis ground of the burners through the flame (rectifying the 90VAC to DC). The flame sensor circuit on the control board senses the 5ua of DC current, and keeps the relays on which control the propane gas flow.
The moment the 5ua of current isn't sensed, the control board shuts down the relays controlling the flame, which is what was happening. So, there was nothing wrong with the furnace, other than the flame wasn't being sensed.
With the new flame sensor, everything is working fine.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8565/15533431543_e56ed2ba81_b.jpg
What is almost incompressible to me is HOW the flame sensor failed. It wasn't dirty. It wasn't shorted. It's just a steel rod! The ceramic wasn't visibly cracked. I just don't get it, but, it is what it is.
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On 12/31/2014 12:22 AM, Danny D. wrote:

I've forgotten that information. But still, results is what counts. I've also replaced a couple sensor rods.
Now, on to the next repair. With 500 posts, 50 Flickr pictures, and 4,000 reply posts from the list.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Wed, 31 Dec 2014 05:22:55 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

Congratulations on fixing the problem. However, from an education point of view, your statement that the flame sensor is just a hunk of stainless steel is NOT correct. Google "thermocouple" and see how they work. The current does not go through the flame. It is generated by two pieces of dissimilar metals creating a voltage which then causes a tiny current to flow and be sensed. They can and do go bad.
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On 12/31/2014 6:21 AM, Pat wrote: ...

Flame sensors of this type are _not_ thermocouples and indeed the current is carried by the flame (actually ions produced by the combustion process). Thermocouples are also used, but they're entirely different.
It is correct, however, that the flame detector is quite a bit more than just a chunk of SS...
<http://www.gayesco.com/Prod_Flame_Rods.htm
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On Wed, 31 Dec 2014 04:31:14 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

Next time buy a Honda.
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