especially CoE- overseen waterfront, opens up a BIG can'o'worms. I'd almost
bet you have to get state and/or federal permits to make ANY changes that
could have any plausible effect on the beachfront erosion zones like that.
They don't want upstream and downstream effects from changing waterflow
patterns caused by caving shorelines, or anything that may cause land-based
stuff to migrate into the water.
Yeah, I know, its just a bunch of conrete blocks. You should have just dug a
hole uphill of the high water mark and buried them. But if you are hiring
out the work to put in something prettier, they will insist on permits to
cover their butts, in all likliehood.
Time to call an engineer and cry for your soon-to-be-empty wallet.
John, I use to live on Cedar Point in Sandusky Ohio. We had many of the same problems
are speaking of. We had to take out permits with the core of engineers IF we added to
dry water line when we fixed our soil erosion. What you want to do I can't believe you
need a permit for. Doing work for the Corp's in Huron's dredge substation and knowing
of the guys, I don't think what your describing the Corps would care to even come out
but I'm no longer up on the issue. At Cedar Point WE had to put boulders on the beach
banks or loose our homes, the Corps didn't give a rats care about it. They just want
make sure you don't steal extra land and that you don't change the currents. If your
action would cause however erosion to other places, that's something different. But
mentioned, this was a 'makeshift' wall.
Now, as to breaking them up, if they are blocks, use a chisel and a 7 or ten pound
Wear goggles and gloves. They make chisels by the way that have a covering over the
where the hammer hits, this will protect your hand if you miss. Go for the mortar
hit it pretty good, the block will most likely separate from the others one at a time.
Thanks a lot for your answer. I should have drawn a clearer picture
of the "wall" - it is made up of the concrete barrels, some still
encased, in a rather crappy-looking pile up the bank. My idea was to
break them up into smaller chunks and/or put in rebar somehow and
spray with concrete to make a more monolithic structure. An
alternative was to break them up and use the chunks in gabions - those
mesh-encased blocks of stones. I searched but could find no books
dealing with erosion projects, outside one $600 offering dealing with
That sounds like overkill to me-- but I wouldn't be at that point yet.
If you like the idea of shotcrete then give the local guy a call & ask
him to come look at it see how many & how big your holes have to be.
[And if it is really feasible to do the job that way. He'll know your
codes, your climate & your geography better than anyone who isn't
Then ask what he'll charge to do the prep work-- and how much you
would save if you do it yourself. [and if he'll even shoot a job that
you've prepped. He might not- and we can't blame him as this will be
the most important step & he's going to be guaranteeing the job.]
Once you've got him to that point, if he'll shoot your base, ask what
he'd suggest using. By then he'll know exactly what you're drilling &
how many holes you need to drill.
On 7 Apr 2004 14:27:16 -0700, firstname.lastname@example.org (JohnD) wrote:
My first instinct was that you could sell them [give them away] to
someone who needed some erosion control & they'd figure out how to
If they are on the shores of Erie then *you* are probably the one who
needs some erosion control.
I have to echo the thoughts of aem. . . you might have some legal
hoops to jump through to do anything near the shores of one of the big
But back to your first question. If your time is worth nothing then,
yes, you *could* break them up with a light jackhammer. [When you
mention 'rotary hammer or jackhammer' I'm guessing you're thinking of
something light like the Bosch 11305] Just a wild guess, but I'll
bet that breaking a single drum sized piece of concrete into chunks
[chips] could easily take 4 hours with that tool. Bigger, heavier
hammers would shorten the job-- but raise the expense & toll it will
take on your body.
How many do you need to break up or move? I'd think I'd be thinking
of levers & where I could use them in the immediate area.
[BTW- at the other end of the Erie canal near Schenectady]
A sledge hammer would probably be nearly as quick as a jackhammer,
and only mildly more effort. either way, it's going to be a pain.
I think you should sell the damn things on EBAY as mooring blocks,
hitching-posts, traffic-barriers, and, with plywood monkeys, as lawn
art for stupid people. Then use the money to buy crushed rock.
I don't suppose you've got a convenient cliff to shove them off?
that would probably do it..
Do you mean the 55 gal drums were filled with concrete and now you want
to break it up?
I once had a 4ft x 4ft block of concrete. After a lot of work I found
it easier to dig a large hole and dump it in. I wonder what someone in the
future will think of that chunk of concrete if they ever try to dig there.
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