breaker box install question

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On 07/22/2016 4:27 PM, bob_villain wrote: ...

Which as noted before doesn't mention any limitation of using any/all combination of connection points simultaneously...
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It doesn't say you can either. In fact it makes no mention of using the screws as terminals at all.
This is summed up well in the beginning of NFPA70 (the NEC) "90.1(C) Intention. This Code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons."
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On 07/22/2016 6:47 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Precisely.

In that case, why are they there? Decoration? It does say what wire sizes they're qualified for and that they match UL color code and proudly announces the "Terminal compartments isolated from each other for positive conductor containment" and spec's they're Tri-drive screws which pretty much indicates they're expected to be used.

Granted, but the manufacturer's datasheet isn't the Code, either...
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The screws are there to tighten the plate inside the device. There are 2 mounting screws there too and they are grounded but that des not mean you can hook a ground wire to them.

screwdrivers along with #1 Robertson bits

Yes it is "110.3(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling."
You still have not told me what sized box you would need to accept 4 cables. (the minimum you would need to use 3 on one terminal, even if you split the receptacle by breaking off the tab). If you leave it as a duplex, you can install 8 conductors plus the ground just using the available holes in the back. That is a count of 11 (22" for #14, 24.75" for #12)
Hey I really do not care. Do whatever you want. You are not in my patch. Maybe your inspector doesn't care. I was just pointing out the code.
OUT
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On 07/23/2016 1:19 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Ah, so! My bad; was thinking of the other push-in type with just the internal spring connector in which the screw terminals are independent. Just a "senior moment", I guess, sorry...

Referencing the Code doesn't make the referencing document the Code... :)
Yes, you're (obviously) supposed to install the device to Code, the question I had (as well as at least one other poster) was where the specifics of what had/had not been qualified was documented. But, as above, that was based on thinking about another device's configuration, not the specific device in question.
As for box sizes, I really don't know (and didn't go look up...just seemed like there'd be room for a third cable if one didn't need to have room for the pigtails -- but fill is something I'm certain I violate routinely as Code just seems _way_ overkill often from a practical standpoint of what one needs to put where. "If it fits, it's good" is pretty much my definition... :)
The farm here isn't in a regulated jurisdiction so don't actually have to worry about inspections...I've pretty much followed Dad's practices which have served since REA arrived with no problems ever observed of excessive heating or such in some 70 year or so now, so doesn't seem to have been _too_ non-conservative.
I just redid some wiring in the barn where I've begun rearranging for the woodshop installing a 3ph converter for the planer and removing a bunch of the old motor starters and so on from the feed mill no longer using to put its controls where they were. They were all installed in the late 50s/early 60s and still look as new as far as wire, etc., inside the controllers, etc, despite the accumulated grain dust and other inevitable detritus from such a location over that time...from which I draw comfort the basic rules followed are adequate albeit admittedly far closer to 60s/70s era Code than current; it's still 3-wire service, not 4, etc., and that's not going to change in my lifetime.
Again, I wasn't trying to argue, was actually trying to figure out a limitation reason on using the side terminal screws but as noted was operating under a wrong assumption which made the conclusion had drawn erroneous.
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These receptacles have 2 screws on each side, joined by a jumper plate that is removeable (one time only) to convert to a split" There are 2 holes in the back of the receptacle at each screw for "back-clamp" wiring that can accept one copper conductor from #10 to #14 AWG. Those back-clamp conductors are clamped in place by pulling the clamping plate in, squeazing the wire between the clamping playe and the statiobary plate in the outlet.
Instead of arguing about whether it is legal to ALSO side-wire to the screw terminals directly just look at the way it is constructed. Code does NOT allow 2 wires under one screw BECAUSE the connection of each wire is dependent on the integrety of the other When one wire deforms from round over time it effects the pressure on the other wire, effectively loosening the connection. The back-clamp system is designed and approved for 2 wires on one screw using the clamp plate. Addind a wire under the screw head (if it is physivally possible to do so) changes the "engineering" of the connection, in basically yhe same wat 2 wires inder one screw affects the connection and is NOT allowed. I do not have the instructions that came with my outlet any more but I recall it said for use with the convenient back clamo which accomosates 2 wires per connection OR the "conventional" connection od a single wire under the screw.
I'm sure on mine if I had installed 2 #10 conductors in the back it wouls have been virtually impossible to get anything heavier than aboue a #18 under the screw head
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On Saturday, July 23, 2016 at 8:02:52 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I commend your logic, sir...are you available for a debate team?
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On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 14:27:25 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain

The thing people keep missing is you can accommodate four 2 wire w/g cables in a standard back wired duplex receptacle without using the side screws. How many wires do you think you can stuff in a box?
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On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 6:45:09 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Each is capable of 4 Hot and 4 Neut. wires from the back...and I have only used double boxes even when one duplex was in it. For the shop stuff.
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On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 17:06:58 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain

Once you are in a 4" box, why not spend the extra couple bucks and put in the second receptacle?
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On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 8:25:25 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Nosy bugger aren't you...too many other connections made...I decided to put one in when I was only going to have a junction box. Ya happy?
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On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 18:58:22 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain

You must be new here ;-) The AHR way is to tell someone who asks about how to install a light in their shed that they need a 100 amp panel out there.
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On 07/22/2016 1:10 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I did, what I could find, and saw nothing saying that.
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I have vague recollection that a device wasn't allowed in-circuit with another device - e.g. a downstream recep may not be wired in parallel with an upstream recep using the device terminals, but rather the upstream device must be pigtailed.
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John G posted for all of us...

+1 As always
--
Tekkie

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On Wednesday, July 20, 2016 at 5:02:28 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@daisy.com wrote:

You don't explain where this wire is coming from or how long it is. It should come from a 15a or 20a breaker on the main panel.
Black is hot. White is neutral. Green is earth ground. That is the standard color code but you can't trust that is true until you verify it. A 10 gauge wire at 120V should go through a 15a or 20a breaker. If the wire is long then a 15a breaker may be best. The black (Hot) wire goes to the breaker. The box may accept two breakers but you can only use one breaker. Turn off the power before messing with it. Contact an electrician if you are uncertain. Use a test light to verify that black is indeed the only hot wire.
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wrote:

use both breakers in that panel. Using a lug or large wire nut, split the black to both breakers, and put the white on the neutral as you normally would. Make sure the #10 wire is fed on the black from a single 30 amp breaker, with the white on neutral at the main panel so you are only getting 120 volts, not 240.. Connect the bare or green to the panel case.
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On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 8:08:45 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Who decided that?
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