Bloom Energy on 60 Minutes

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Oh,if a fuel cell uses hydrocarbon fuels(like propane or CNG),it's going to emit carbon,probably in the form of CO2 or CO.

the stupid ones are those who blindly believe in anything that's on TV. (especially the deceptive 60 Minutes)
Those who refuse to consider the FULL situation.
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Jim Yanik
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Geez, I don't see anyone here blindly believing anything or failing to consider the FULL situation. I do see you being extremely negative and trying to dismiss a strawman that you created.
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Who pays for the repairs when your car has a problem? Or when your AC or furnace goes out?

Sure there are scammers, but I hardly thing Bloom falls into that category. Don't you think Kleiner Perkins did lots of due diligence before they gave this guy $100mil and knew that it would ultimately take $400mil to get to production? This venture capital firm has been around silicon valley for 4 decades and has funded some of the most successful startups in history. Sun Microsystems, Compaq, Google, Amazon, Genentech..... They certainly have access to the best and brightest minds that would know fuel cell and any other technology involved.

It's still a start-up company that is doing hand built prototype testing. It's not at all unusual for a new company to not disclose everything until they are at a point where they feel it's appropriate.

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On 2/22/2010 12:48 PM, LSMFT wrote:

Hardly, if they actually had practical systems that could be purchased turnkey for $3,000 what difference would skeptics make? Everything I read about this so far is nothing but marketing speak.
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On Feb 22, 8:17 am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

>snip<
People at Perkin-Elmer back East will be surprised to learn that they are venture capitalists, since they have only been making scientific instruments for many decades. On the other hand, Kleiner, Caulfield, Perkins and Byers in the West may be miffed for not getting credit for their savvy investments in risky high tech ventures. Just for the record...
Joe
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On 2/22/2010 9:17 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Maybe, but I've heard the only reliable fuel cells run on hydrogen and major company working on figured at least 10 years before they had a commercial product that was cheap and reliable. The cells would be small and portable and could power your house or car. There has been considerable R&D on these and I'd have a wait and see on these guys.
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Frank wrote:

They are a DIFFERENT kind of fuel cell, not the kind you know. I guess everybody missed that.
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LSMFT wrote: ...

Which, of course, is part of the problem -- they've let precious little actual information other than hype and generalities out.
Here's the most detail I've ever seen and it's of very little actual use in understanding what's going on for either a material or energy balance.
One thing I've found most interesting is that having spent a considerable fraction of career in R&D targetted to the generation utilities via EPRI this outfit while based quite close to EPRI headquarters has been resolutely adamant about approaching them for either funding or for demonstration/pilot studies. Perhaps w/ the principal's primary previous sugar daddy having been NASA he's simply unfamiliar w/ the commercial power folks but that would seem hard to do in Sunnyvale while EPRI's in Palo Alto unless is purposeful...
--
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dpb wrote:

Sorry, forgot the link...this predates the 60 Minutes piece; may be from whence they got the idea for the segment, who knows...
<http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/dec2009/gb2009127_746740_page_2.htm
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dpb wrote:

<http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/dec2009/gb2009127_746740_page_2.htm That says that it doesn't release carbon, which is obviously erronious if it is using carbon based fuels.
If these things are 50% efficient, the excess heat could be used to heat houses at the same time they power them.
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Bob F wrote:

Which is only one of the many mysteries yet to be revealed by the Wizard behind the curtain in the Land of Bloom...
There's a minor inconvenience of 2nd Law and conservation of mass that _will_ have to be dealt with eventually. Maybe they've got it down and it is something radically new and different; there surely isn't enough information yet publicly available to make one confident of such. And surely the 60 Minutes segment doesn't do anything to help in that regard.
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There's so much breathless crap about this device, nobody can make a judgement yet. CBS' report has no useful information. Another news website claimed the box "mixes oxygen with...renewable fuel like solar..." for a chemical reaction..!! Yet another points out the fuel/oxygen mix has to be heated to a very high temperature. So where's the energy for *that* come from? Google "saves" $100,000 because of the state government heavily subsidized the investment (with money the state does not have). And then there's the magic "ink".
Nothing to talk about yet.
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what happens to the CARBON in the hydrocarbon fuels? where does it end up?
do you even know?
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Jim Yanik
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On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:56:22 -0500, Frank

Several public schools in my state CURRENTLY have operating hydrogen fuel cells making a large portion of their power.
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

Where do they get the hydrogen?
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It's exacted out of hundred dollar bills.
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On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:54:37 -0600, AZ Nomad

http://tinyurl.com/y9snrzb
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do you have a point to make, other than showing a stupid animation of somebody doing a google search for "fuel cells" "connecticut"?
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On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:36:09 -0600, AZ Nomad

Well, if you were just a teeny tiny bit smarter than dirt, you could have followed that serch result and found a plethora of information about hydrogen fuel cells currently in use. You would even know where they get the hydrogen.
But, you'd have to be at least a teeny tiny bit smarter than dirt...
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All irrelevent, asshole.
The problem is that hydrogen isn't a fuel source. It is an energy transfer medium and a really shitty one at that.
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