bleeder valve cap nut.

My garden faucets each have a valve in the pipe going to them which has a built-in bleeder valve, to drain the water in the pipe after the water to the pipe is turned off.
The bleeder valve is opened by unscrewing a cap nut. The cap nut on one is damaged -- most of the knurling is gone -- and it's impossible to turn without pliers and I think eventually I will crush the nut.
Can I put on a replacement if I do? IIRC I'm almost certain there was a stopping point that will make it hard to take the nut all the way off (a convenience when I'm up on a ladder and there's lots of junk below me to lose the nut in, but maybe a big inconvience if I need to remove replace the nut) and would make it hard to put another back on?
Without a cap nut, I won't be able to turn on the water to the faucet outside, because it will drip or run constantly. Surely they thought of this and sell replacement cap nuts but I don't know what to search for. Googling, I'm not even sure bleeder is the right word.
Standard copper pipe for a 1980 house garden faucet is 1/2", right?
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Micky:
Everything depends on who made the valve. If it was made in the USA or Canada, like Nibco, you should be able to buy the "Drain Cap" as a part.
Nibco's distributor in Canada is NCI Canada:
'Welcome to NCI Canada' (http://www.ncicanada.com /)
I would phone them up and find out what the standard threads used on drain caps are. On all of the valves with drains I've ever had any experience with, there is nothing preventing the cap from coming off entirely. You just keep turning it counter clockwise, and it should come off. Take that drain cap off an take it to any place that specializes in fasteners, and see if they can measure the threads on it for you. If you can relate the thread information to someone at NCI, I'd expect they would have a drain cap to replace the one you have. Get the part number because you'll need that to order them. Maybe get several cuz they do fall and get lost.
NCI is a distributor. They don't deal with the public. Maybe speak to someone on NCI's order desk to find out which companies in your area order from NCI on a regular basis, and then order the drain caps from that local wholesaler or retailer.
I don't know who the Nibco distributor in your area is, but Nibco or even NCI Canada should be able to tell you.
'Where to Buy' (http://www.nibco.com/Where-To-Buy /)
The above web page has a link to Nibco tech support. If you just explain your situation, they should be able to tell you what standard threads are used for drains, and hopefully Nibco has replacement caps that use that thread size.
--
nestork


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On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 06:49:38 +0100, nestork

Thanks for your detailed answer.

Googling for drain cap I found one that is definitely hot mine, but it uses the description "Knurled cap is crimped to valve body to prevent accidental removal." So I have a feeling mine is like that, although it's been 30 years since I turned it that far and I might be recalling something else. Still, I'm sure i can force the old one off and a new one on. (well the new one won't be crimped.) But I have to shut the water off. If I'm going to do that anyway, I should do it no later than tomorrow.

Well they listed Home Depot and Lowes. That's good, because they're here, bad because last I looked they both had terrible webpages.

Starting with the words you gave me, I found another link, that teaches me some new words: Waste Cap And Washer, and drainable valve. Much better than using "bleeder valve". This page sells a retail display card with 3 different sizes for $1.71. Cheap enough! Plus $8 dollar shipping. I'll look around here <grin> http://www.essentialhardware.com/product_detail.php?pid 8550&gclid=CLu_0NeD7rsCFQ7xOgodfH0AgA
"Waste cap" sure seems like the wrong word, and seaching for waste cap and the sku from the page above yielded exactly one link, the page above!!
I put waste cap into a home depot search, because I do the least likely to work first, yet it yielded http://www.homedepot.com/p/Homewerks-Worldwide-5-16-in-and-3-8-in-Valve-Waste-Caps-2-Pack-VACCAPW2B/202369992?keyword=waste+cap# A 2-pack for 75 cents. The webpage say Store Only,
Unlike the first webpage, which showed the hole in each one through which the "waste" water drains, the picture of these two puts the holes where they can't be seen, and the product overview doesn't really say what it is, If I didn't know what it probably is, I'd have no idea.
The Homewerks Worldwide Valve Waste Caps (2-Pack) feature brass construction for durability. The caps are 5/16 in. and 3/8 in. and have a maximum working pressure of 150 psi. Brass construction Maximum working pressure of 150 psi Maximum working temperature of 180 degrees Fahrenheit Includes 5/16 in. cap and 3/8 in. cap
Home Depot's webpage is so bad. I looked at something which was supposed to be rated by amps or watts or something and it only gave the dimensions, that is, the dimensions of the box it came in.
But for 75 cents, I'll buy a pack. It can never remember what my store is. It thinks I live on the other side of town. But the one near me has 20 in stock. That's more than enough. (other stores have 40 or 15, etc.) When I get there I'll be able to see if there is a hole in each cap. If there's no hole, maybe I'll drill one.
No way to set the store near me, listed on the screen, as my store. Maybe if I buy one, I'll be able to.
I ordered one at the store near me, but somehow I now have two in my shopping cart, one at the store near me and one at the store they think is my store. I remove one.
Thanks a lot. Without the phrase drain cap, I never would have found this. I would never call this little cap a waste cap.
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wrote:

Tried 'waste cap" at Lowes and the phrase worked there too. Item description is below. This is not about waste, it's about draining. The fact that the water drained is probably wasted shouldn't change that.
OTOH, "drain cap" doesn't work -- it found 10 things but not this -- even though the Model # below, that the first search found, is DRAIN CAPS. So searching on drain cap won't find DRAIN CAPS. Ugh.
Searching on DRAIN CAPS, the page immediately changed it to lower case, and found the same 10 things the previous search found, but not the model named DRAIN CAPS. Didn't I tell you that Lowes webpage was still bad. I think a bunch of these people were on loan to Obamacare.
AMERICAN VALVE Brass Waste Valve Replacement Part
Item #: 22257 | Model #: DRAIN CAPS
$2.70
Almost 4 times the price. Probably better? HD is a lot closer though.
The holes show in the picture, but otoh, the gaskets showed in the HD picture, They looked awfully thick. OTOH, the holes are more important if you don't know what
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On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 3:40:19 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:

Just take the cap to a plumbing supply and show it to them.
If it were me, I'd consider buying a frost-proof sillcock and installing it.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I agree. Or, just take the bleeder cap to an Ace Hardware, other hardware store, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. and my guess is that they will have them. I think they sometimes have 2 sizes to choose from, but just go there with the original bleeder cap and look.
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On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 06:14:48 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

Because they're not gaskets. they're circles of rubber. The old one is compressed around the perimeter to 1/4 or 1/10th its original thickness.
OTOH, the holes are more

Trader, I've considered getting a frost-proof sillcock, but first I wanted to ask my neighbors what they do to prevent freezing. I have a hard time believing they all drain the pipes every years, so maybe it never freezes. They do sell them at the local HD, so some must be using them. They have 6, 8, 10, and 12 inch models. I have to measure how thick the wall is.
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wrote:

Why even wait until tomorrow, which at the time was Wednesday, So Tuesday night I got on a ladder. I had to use water pump pliers both to turn the water off and to open the drain.
I realize now that the handle had to be on the other side of the pipe for the drain hole to be on the bottom. And if was on this side of the pipe, the handle would be in the way of removing the drain cap. However, half of the houses in the n'hood are the mirror image of mine, so the water in the valve has travel to the left instead of right. So they have to do something else. AFAIK there was only one plumbing mistake in my house and that is that the bathtub drain used to leak in the ceiling below. Some other houses were like that. It stopped by itself after a few years with no harm done.
You were right, the cap was not crimped on. After I turned it two revolutions or more with the pliers, it unscrewed right off
Only one drop of water came out, so immediately I think the pipe is frozen. Then I held my hand to the little hole and a little water ran down my hand. Couldn't judge how much.
Then I thought, is this new water from the pipe or water draining back from the garden faucet? Finally decided if the valve I just shut was leaking, there'd be more water.
Noticed the water wasn't cold, but maybe it was still frozen closer to the outside.
Finally remembered that when I've done this in the past, I close the inside valve, then open the outside valve. It's not open and that's why water comes out so slowly. Either that or its frozen. :-)
Wednesday went to HD and there was a whole box of caps, with the picture with no holes in it, on the front of the box. Been there for years I think but I don't go over the valves section thoroughly and I never saw them.
Also looked for valves with drainabilty. They sold one in metal, labeled on the box, Stop and Waste Valve. for water, oil, or gas. Someone else who calls it waste. And I found a very nice 1" valve on the web with this note: "Note Waste Cap May Be Removed To Drain Downstream Side Of Valve When The Valve Is Closed."
I'm 80 to 90% sure there's no damage. I put a bowl under the valve so I can get an idea of how much water drips out, It will be 50 by Saturday.
Thanks again.
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