Blame it on climate change

The blame for all Sandy's damage is already being placed on climate change by the media.
Could the late season storm be caused by climate change? Possibly.
But the vast majority of blame should be rightly placed on: Developers who sell waterfront housing on the beach knowing the risks. Developers building non-hurricane approved housing. Home owners buying homes on the beach knowing the risks. Developers building structures of all types at sea level. The city building underground transportation below water levels. The jamming up of population into a small area where evacuation is nearly impossible. And the list goes on....
I say that the risk takers finally lost their bet rather just a climate problem. And the risk takers are pleading for money to recoop their loses. And all of us are going to have to pay it one way or the other.
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How many times has the NYC subways flooded due to tidal surges?
Opps those folk who built the subways should have known better from the get go.
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On 11/1/2012 10:43 AM, Red wrote:

Yes but corporations are cleaning up (pun intended). There is big money to be made in disaster restoration. The rich get richer.
It's the little consumer/tax payer that will pay the final bill.
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Don't complain, join them. You can get started surprisingly cheap. Buy a van, some tools, get going. Have a pickup? People will pay you to haul off their damaged stuff.
With a little initiative, small risk, you can be one of the rich too. Surely, you have the balls to do it don't you?
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No pickup, no tools. He spent everything on beer.
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I haven't heard that and I've been watching for it. Perfect opportunity for the tree huggers to gloat, "See, told you..."

Don't think so. Most of those 10 jillion scientists who froth at the mouth about our profligate energy waste seem to espouse the idea that the big storms are simply natural cycle and are unrelated to climate change. The temperature increase that feeds the hurricanes is so slight as to be unnoticeable (yet) and the increase in sea level (up to now) is trivial.

I thought hurricane approved housing, much like earthquake approved focused on keeping the outer shell of the building intact. Basically a wind problem for hurricanes. But for Sandy although wind affected trees and hence electricity supply, most of the damage was storm surge.
The key here is indeed greedy developers but probably equally us and our elected officials. I thought we'd stopped allowing building of anything more than beach shacks on barrier islands but that's where lots of the damage occurred in NJ. You don't get sand dunes washing into your front yard if you don't build on the beach.
Even government sponsored construction appeared on landfill (Battery Park City (on the tip of Manhattan) and quasi-barrier islands such as Coney Island (not really an island now and has many large public housing projects). You could even consider much of Long Island as barrier island, at least the low-lying areas (lots of it).
Very hard to resist the temptation to build in those areas and probably the kiss of death for any politician who tried in the past or who tries now. But that's exactly the sort of bitter medicine we have to take if we don't want these problems to recur.

Note the word "underground". Very difficult to build that type of transportation system above water levels especially when it has to go under two major rivers. The solution is actually twofold: large watertight doors and large capacity pumps. But the problem is still our unwillingness to be taxed to afford them and the benefit (or lack thereof) that would accrue to any politician who succeeded in forcing us to cough up the money.

Evacuation is/was not the problem.

Just as we're all paying for Joplin, New Orleans, etc. and will continue to do so for others unless of course you want to consider secession.
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On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 23:20:14 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@nowhere.gov wrote:

Part of "hurricane proof" is building above the likely flood level. A Florida beach house might be 14 or 15 feet off the sand
I already linked this picture in another thread but this is what happens in a Cat 4 storm (Ike) when you build a 150 MPH rated house. Sandy was a weak Cat 1.
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/art.gilchrist.house.irpt.jpg
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On Nov 1, 9:03pm, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I tried googling for it and found only that one picture. It looks suspiciously photo shopped.
Harry K
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wrote:

If you look around enough you will find the story of the helicopter crew that shot the picture and before and after shots of the house.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Yeah, do a google IMAGE search for "house survives hurricane." The owners lost a previous home to a hurricane, so had this one built to withstand the next one.
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wrote:

Our current code here in coastal Florida is 20 MPH higher than that house was built to. My area is 170 MPH, the keys are 180. The code in the northeast is 50 or 60 at best and it is clear they didn't have any flood protection. (elevation). We can only hope FEMA enforces their own current law when they rebuild. They didn't in New Orleans and we set ourselves up for a repeat performance there., Building on a barrier island is iffy at best and I am still not sure why the government subsidizes it. Sandy was a small enough storm that if they were built to the Florida code the damage would have been superficial The "blow out walls" in the lower 'not dwelling area" would have blown out but the dwelling area up on pilings would still be there, just like that picture. I doubt they will actually do it. They will build back exactly what they had and it will wash away the same way.
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Thanks. I'm always interested in oddities like that.
Harry K
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On Nov 2, 12:03am, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

This a quote from: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/09/18/ike.last.house.standing /
"Although the house is there, it might not continue to stand. Huge storm surges walloped the interior, making it uninhabitable and destroying many belongings. "
At this site, the text says:
"He cleaned up, rebuilt, and opened a BBQ restaurant across the street, further planting his roots near the sea and shore that he loves."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZQyYl8ETtY

Granted, he didn't have to start from scratch, but I wonder how much had to be rebuilt. If you look at the house after the storm and then again 4 years later, there has been some significant changes, including new decking and what appear to be garages underneath.
I wonder how much of the original house was salvageable and if the new stuff are just bolt-ons or if they were part of a major reconstruction of the original structure.
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On Nov 1, 11:03pm, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

When Andrew hit Homestead, FL back in '92 many of the least damaged homes were those built by Habitat for Humanity. They found out that the volunteers, not knowing what they were doing, drove a lot more nails in each joint than a normal contractor would use. Unintentional hurricane proofing.
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wrote:

Nails are not hurricane proofing. You need straps. That is one reason why we have so many concrete block houses. By the time you buy and install all of the Simpson strong ties you need in a stick house, block is cheaper, even with the steel you need in the block.
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http://www.miamihabitat.org/miami-habitat-history
Begun in '89- Andrew was '92.
They don't say it was accidental that their homes survived; "In 1992, Hurricane Andrew, a massive category-5 hurricane, roared through South Florida, becoming the costliest disaster in US history to date. The 165mph winds proved to be no match for the 27 well-built Habitat homes in South Dade at the time: none sustained any structural damage."
This page quotes them as saying; http://activerain.com/blogsview/2133846/habitat-for-humanity-builds-houses-better-than-many - "Habitat attributes the sturdiness of their homes to the organization's practice of going beyond the stated building code by using extra studs and braces, plywood instead of weaker substitutes, and hand-driven nails instead of staples in their construction. Accordingly, one of the changes in the new building code since the hurricane was to require nails in all new construction."
Jim
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wrote:

The nails they are talking about are to put the shingles down. We also require 6 per shingle as opposed to 4.
The thing that holds the house together is the Simpson clips. Everything gets strapped together from the foundation to the roof trusses. They also require more nails in the roof sheathing (4" on the edges, 8" in the field, using 2.5" ring shank nails)
Habitat houses got inspected. Most in unincorporated Dade were not
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On 11/1/2012 9:43 AM, Red wrote:

I thought it was all the fault of George Bush? O_o
TDD
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On Nov 1, 10:30pm, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky- finger.net> wrote:

Well, of course it was but don't forget that George Bush was the fault of Obama!
Harry K
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