Bizarre toilet leaking problem

[jamesgang]

I never caulk around toilets. I set the toilet on new tile before the thinset hardens to make sure it doesn't rock.

[DerbyDad03]

I'm not suggesting moving the trap...I'm suggesting adding a trap at the end near the stack, just enough to add some slope to the existing pipe.

Fernco fittings would make cleaning that section of pipe very easy.

You snipped a major portion of my post, including the part where I said that my suggestion might not even work, so I'm just adding that back in so everyone knows that it was just a brainstorming idea on how to add some slope to the pipe without having to change the connection at the stack

[nestork]

Your suggestion WILL work, just do what you're thinking at the upstream end of the drain pipe, where the existing trap is.

Re-read my previous post. I changed it when I realized that you could do what you were thinking, but you could only do it at the upstream end.

[Rebel1]

I didn't know what the standard was, so it seemed reasonable to me. FWIW, the distance from the wall behind the tank to the opposite one is

54 inches.

[Rebel1]

The water supply is about 5.25" above the floor. It connects to the bottom of the tank, which is 15" above the floor. Everything is dry there.

The off-vertical wall I mentioned is an interior wall (no window). The outside ones are much closer to vertical. A uniform slope (i.e., the same on both side of the window) wouldn't cause a problem.

The house was built in 1969 on a slab. When I bought it in 2000, I immediately changed all window, mainly to save energy. Perhaps the original ones had become hard to operate, but that was not a factor.

[Rebel1]

as? Maybe something bizarre with air pressure

The shower pan is a single piece, 31"x48". The side of the floor between the bowl and pan was always dry, The seepage was from the front of the bowl and the side opposite the pan.

[nestork]

The "standard" is that the floor be built with no intentional slope to it.

Your floor, just like mine, is "standard".

[DerbyDad03]

Really? Since windows have to be installed plumb to both operate smoothly and be covered under their warranty, I can foresee problems with a out of plumb wall. Somewhere along the way, something isn't going to fit right. With a plumb window in an out of plumb wall, some trim or some framing or something is going to be "a problem".

So did you install the windows plumb or did you match the slope of the wall? If you installed the windows the right way (plumb) then how did you deal with the trim, such as the interior stops?

[Rebel1]

I'm missing something. If I go to a window showroom and take an uninstalled window and lay it horizontally, why shouldn't the sashes work as long as nothing is trying to distort (twist or rack) the frame from its rectangular shape?

I can't answer these questions. I hired a pro to install 11 double-hung windows, one entry door, one sliding patio door, and one bay window to replace two side-by-side double-hung windows. I haven't had problems with the operation of anything.

[Vic Smith]

Seems to me it was just a leaky wax ring. I mean, it stopped when you installed a new ring. You proved by testing that the shower water wasn't backing up in the waste stack. You noticed no condensation. Flushing the toilet repeatedly should have a part of the test. Water doesn't always act like you might suppose. Little obstructions and service tension can make the flow vary. Even atmospheric pressure can play a role. No telling why it decided to flow out from under the toilet when it did. But the new wax ring stopped it.

[Robert Green]

I can't clear it with a snake anyway. It's an old tub drain with a metal plate across the opening about 1" down from the rim which now has a hairline crack from the time I was dumb enough to think I was going to be able to remove and replace it without damaging anything. I spent a long time staring at the ceiling in the basement thinking about this today, and the solution options aren't very good.

I believe the only way to counter the fact that the waste stack didn't settle with the rest of the house is to cut a section of the wastepipe out equal to the amount that the rest of the house has settled and then Fernco'ing it together.

Or I could keep plunging the SOB until it forces me to do something. )-" Standing water seems to have really increased the tuberculation of the pipes from rust. Right now there's a soft plastic screen over the drain to keep almost any kind of debris out of the drainpipe. It's a bummer.

[Robert Green]

Sorry for asking, I should have known you checked but leaks can be so insidious - like a chain of sugar ants going up electrical cords, under cabinet edges, snaking through tiny holes, etc. Someone should invent a spray that goes on like a white powder and when water hits it, it turns blue.

I remember trying to track down a leak in a double basin sink and I would dry everything off, run water into the sink and magically the pipes would be wet again. It wasn't until I undid everything that I discovered one end of a T fitting was only press-fit, not solvent welded.

In my case the back has dropped 2". Back and front windows are still square, but side windows are devolving into parallegrams. Very hard to open parallegrams. )-:

Did the same when I bought my house. The originals were double hung with sash weights from 1941 and had six poorly-caulked individual panes to each half. The unexpected benefit of double-pane Andersens was how quiet it got with the windows tightly closed. The heating bill dropped like a paralyzed falcon.

[Robert Green]

Gack! That would be pretty awkward in this tiny house.

I think cutting two inches out of the main waste stack or lifting the tub are the only practical options here. Except for continuing the plunging regimen. It builds strong arm muscles. (-:

[Robert Green]

That sounds like something to consider. I had to read it twice to figure out what you were saying but that would restore the pitch even though it might not be code. I am pretty nervous about sawing a 2" thick ring out of the huge vertical waste pipe so just working with the tub drain segment itself has serious appeal.

Everything was fine (well, not really, but I was unaware) until I read this thread and decided to check the pitch of the tub drain pipe because it needing plunging again today. Darn!

[Vic Smith]

On Tue, 6 Aug 2013 06:29:34 -0400, "Robert Green" wrote:

Hey, relax. Everything is still copasetic. Even with correct pitch - which isn't much pitch at all - tub/shower drains tend to clog with hair. Mostly long hair at that. Soap scum attaches to that. I had to plunge mine occasionally, maybe every couple years. Using bubble bath helps cut down the soap scum. I used a dose of dish detergent in my bath for years, but my wife makes me use her bubble bath. Says using dish detergent isn't "natural." After I plunge to loosen the hair/scum, I run hot water through the drain, then pour maybe a cup of dish detergent down the drain, and flush again. More hot water, another cup of dish detergent, then let it sit awhile. Put in the plug, fill the tub with hot water only, then pull the plug. Might burn your arm a bit if it a rubber plug. Course you could just tie a string to the plug ring, but that's no fun. Flows well again, then gradually slows until it's intolerable. Bought a couple of these about a year ago.

One for laundry tub to catch lint, because I had to unclog that drain too, and one for the bath tub. Look like the ones grandma and ma used 60 years ago, but you don't see them in stores, at least I don't. Also, this works with the bath tub pop-up drain plug. Of course you have to clean it after each use. I see people complaining in the Amazon reviews that "they have to clean it or it stops working." Jesus H. Christ. Wife wipes the hair/scum off with toilet paper after her bath. I don't use it. Don't know how she cleans the one on the laundry tub, but she does. I can say they're working, because neither drain has slowed down since. So it's the long hair in the bath and lint/threads coming out of the washing machine that clog the drains. But I bet you knew that already.

[DerbyDad03]

...snip...

...snip...

She turns it over and rinses out the lint so that it goes down the drain. ;-)

[Vic Smith]

Since she helped me snake the drain there, and saw it was all lint blocking it, and talked about how that should be filtered, don't think so. Pretty sure she holds it over the trash container by the tub and rubs it off into there. I know she's bitched once about having to reach into the water and pull out drek because it got clogged and she was afraid the tub could overflow. Once. So I figure she solved that by regular cleaning. But I'll ask.

[DerbyDad03]

For a list of problems that might occur with various types of windows if they are not installed square, level and plumb, read section 2 of this installation instruction:

In addition, check the warranty data from just about any window company. They will typically state that failure to install the window square, level and plumb will void the warranty.

Yes, the sashes may "work" if the window is laid horizontally, but the locks may not, the weather stripping may not do it's job, condensation may flow to where it is not designed to flow, etc.

Remember, gravity sucks. A out of plumb window will have the force of gravity acting on it in ways it was not designed for.

[Vic Smith]

You were closer than me. I was over by the wash tub, and didn't see the strainer anywhere. I asked her, and she said it was around somewhere, but she wasn't using it. Said the wash cycle draining clogged it enough she was worried about the rinse cycle overflowing the tub. She didn't want to babysit the cycles. Also said it was a PITA to clean. I said "You know that drain is going to clog up again?" She said "Yeah" in a guilty tone. I left it at that. She's got plenty of other stuff to worry about. Next time she does the wash I'l babysit it and figure it out. I don't think the rinse cycle will overflow the tub. It's a big one. I'll see how long the tub takes to finally drain, and figure out an easy way to clean the strainer. No, I won't be turning it over and rinsing the lint down the drain.

[Rebel1]

Thanks for the link. Looking at Figures A, B, and C, none check that the wall is plumb. Zoom in on Figure A, and you'll see that the two bubbles in each level could be centered, but the wall itself could be out of plumb. For checking the wall, one of the levels would have to be turned

90 degrees. The instructions don't really address wall plumbness.