Better low-flush toilets

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Having just replaced a toilet for a friend yesterday, just wanted to plop in my observations here for those who might be looking to do the same.
The toilet being replaced was a low-flush one, not very old, but in a basement bath with a history of clogging problems. So my friend got a new low-flush unit which was supposed to be much better at disposing of waste. When I got a look at the tank I could see why: instead of the normal outlet and flapper, this one had a 4" opening, significantly larger. Which means that the water whooshes into the toilet a lot faster.
We'll see if it makes a difference.
I don't remember the make, but he got it at Home Despot, so I assume it's available pretty much anywhere.
One weird thing, though: instead of being at the bottom of the tank like you'd expect, the flapper sits a couple of inches up on an extension. This is obviously by design. Seems strange to leave that much water in the bottom of the tank; there must be some reason for this. (Hydrodynamics?)
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On 12/8/2010 11:12 AM I spake thus:

I got it; maybe they took old non-low-flush toilets and made 'em into low-flush ones by adding that extension?
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Or maybe the extension gives the water-column more velocity, since it must fall from a greater height?
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Tegger

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On 12/8/2010 4:09 PM Tegger spake thus:

Yabbut ... 1-1/2 - 2"? Not much extra height there.
Maybe those old-timey "tank near the ceiling" toilets are the way to go here. (But with bigger pipes.)
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Maybe...just enough? I'm guessing, here.

My brother had one of those in the early '70s. I'd never seen one before, and it looked really weird with the tank up near the ceiling and a long pull-chain. It did flush very well, though.
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On Wed, 08 Dec 2010 11:12:35 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:

So all the water doesn't run out of the flapper hence saving water?
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More likely it raises the hieght of the water drop to give it more energy. Tanks don't have to be as tall as they used to be as the volume is smaller, but would look funny if there were a gap. Pretty soon we'll be back to the old British style where the tank is mounted up at the ceiling.
In the meantime, if you are considering replacing your toilet, I highly recommend you pick up a copy of the latest Maximum Performance Test of low flow toilets here:
http://www.cwwa.ca/home_e.asp
Look for the link that says Publications / Free Publications and click on the MAP report.
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On Wed, 08 Dec 2010 13:25:23 -0700, Robert Neville wrote:

My water-saver Glacier Bay uses a barrel flush. At the top of the tank there is half a barrel containing the flush water. When the handle is moved the barrel tips and water falls to the tank bottom. This increases the initial siphon backfill and overall flush performance.
This is very similar to the Glacier Bay flaperless.
http://cdn.greenoptions.com/c/cc/800x600px-LL-PegasusTank.JPG
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On 12/8/2010 2:12 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:

More gravity working for you. Water height.
Got a Kohlar Cimmaron 1.28 here (literally). Beats the pants off my old toilet. Never clogs. Flushes super quick. Amazing.
Jeff

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I recently installed a 1.28 gpf American Standard toilet. 3 inch flapper, large siphon hole. Flapper sits pretty much on the bottom of the tank.
It flushes great, but I've got a concern about what happens after the waste leaves the bowl.
We get roots in our pipes and end up with partial blockages and gurgling toilets once every year or so. $35 to rent a 100 foot snake clears the problem. The money is nothing, it's the pick-up, clean-up (yuck!) and drop off that's a pain.
Anyway, my concern is that with 20% less water moving waste through the pipe I'm going to get blockages sooner since things won't be moving along quite as quickly and could get caught sooner.
What I save on water will be dwarfed by what it'll cost to replace the sewer pipe to eliminate the problem.
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re: "It's the roots that's the problem, not the toilet"
err...no sh*t. (pun intended)
However, from a real life perspective, it really doesn't matter what's to blame. The point is that if 1.6 gallons move the stuff fast enough to move it past the roots but 1.28 gallons won't, my "partial blockages" might occur sooner.
In other words, if I'm willing to live with snaking the pipes every 18 months but not every 6 months, then using the 1.28 GPF toilet might require me to replace the sewer pipe. From that perspective, I'd be replacing the pipe because I replaced the toilet.
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DerbyDad03 wrote:

I have the same root problems in two houses. I have used copper sulfate for years, uncertain whether it helps. CuS has gotten pricey. I'm going to try flushing a handful of (water softener) salt pellets every couple of weeks. Hope they will get caught in roots and remain active longer than the CuS that passes through quickly.
Replacing the pipe means opening the slab floors (and moving the furnace at one house). Big job.
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Bryce wrote:

Don't know if this would work, but it might be worth a try...
Hang, or drop, a cloth bag of those salt pellets in the tank. Some amount of them will dissolve with each flush, keeping the drain rather briney. If you have to replenish the bag every month, the technique would seem worthwhile - once a day, not so much.
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HeyBub wrote:

Thanks! I may try that, with frequent peeks into the tank to see how the assortment of metal (brass, copper, steel) parts are coping with the new flavor.
After my earlier post, I realized it's CuSO4, not CuS. Sigh.
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On 12/8/2010 10:59 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

just flush it twice. Or get an old 3.5gal toilet from a sale.
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re: "just flush it twice. "
Right. Like it make sense to upgrade your toilet for better efficiency (and for other reasons in my case) and then to flush it, wait for the tank to fill up and then flush it again.
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On 12/10/2010 7:43 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

well no one's forcing these people to use these "modern" toilets, then bitch about them. I find perfectly fine and usable 3.5 gallon units at sales all the time. I always use them especially when it is a long run to the main or septic tank.
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Let me run the purchase of somebody else's used toilet past the wife.
I'll let you know how that works out. ;-)
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On 12/10/2010 8:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

It's a piece of frickin porcelain. Your wife needs help.
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Try a laxative. It'll relax you.
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