Better ideas for fixing leak right at the pool pump inlet (no room!)

[trader4]

Per the other thread, it's apparently a cartridge filter. But I agree, I thought it was DE or sand because of the shape and size.

[Arklin K.]

I suspect they do.

For now, this is a theoretical question because I'm done fixing the broken plumbing. But to answer the questions, when the pool was dry, I removed the main filter inlet cover which is in the floor of the deep end of the pool. The only thing below it is a flush pipe opening set in concrete. There are no threads.

So, any plug would have to be a physical male plug (a female wouldn't work because there's no pipe sticking up to grab onto). It's the same with the safety in the wall at the deep end.

[Arklin K.]

That picture is worth a thousand words!

I now see exactly how this plug would work!

I would simply buy five of them (to be sure), and plug the two drains in the spa floor and the main drain in the deep end floor, and then the two safeties on the walls of the pool.

As long as I'm not working on the cleaning system (which has a dozen pop- up valves in the floor), I could then work on the pool!

Thanks for the information! It's great to know!

Here's the description from that URL:

Tapered Rubber Expansion Plug 1-1/2 inch W1100 Rubber Expansion Plug, Price: $3.79 Our Tapered Expansion Plug features black rubber with stainless steel washers, slotted screw, and easy to turn Wing-Nut handle. Provides a good seal to protect plumbing lines from freeze damage. Plug fits a 1-1/2" Wall Fitting.

[Arklin K.]

I have no idea 'what' that red ball valve is for but it's on the outlet side of the filter pump. I 'guess' it's a drain for the filter but the filter space ship bubble has its own drain so I'm not sure what its purpose is.

BTW, there is this strange filter in the outlet of the filter space ship.

- AQUATECH AQTCG35 29135Q

Here's a picture of one side of it:

And, here's a picture of the placement in the line going out of the regular pool filter: Does anyone have one of these?

Do you think they do anything useful?

I googled them and this is what I found:

They seem to be a 'sanitizer' (which makes little sense to me since chlorine is my sanitizer).

[Arklin K.]

There is just the cartridge filter (two huge pleated cloth cartridges). Big one:

one: In addition, there is this weird 'sanitation filter' cartridge on the outlet of the pool filter: That's it, other than the baskets in the skimmers and in the debris canister.

[Arklin K.]

When/if I get more money, that's what I would do.

I'd move the pumps back and put unions in so that I can disconnect the entire pump for servicing.

I'd put a 220v box on the concrete so that I can disconnect the motor without having to spin the entire motor to unscrew the wiring elbow that goes into the back of the motor.

I'd ELIMINATE elbows in the plumbing, making gentle curves (using flexible pipe) so as to reduce friction.

And, in California, if you hire anyone, they must, by law, install multi- speed pumps (single-speed motors are illegal) so I'd probably upgrade the three pumps and panel.

Plus, while I'm there, I'd connect a fourth pump to the existing capped off vacuum line that goes to the middle of the pool - and then I could use a vacuum when the cleaning system goes whacky (which is frequent).

Of course, that pump would need another filter, so I'd add a filter.

And then I'd put a shed over the whole thing to keep the elements from ruining the equipment.

Of course, 'that' will have to wait 'till I have money!

[Arklin K.]

Wow. That looks like nice stuff.

I wonder if it will repair the zillions of leaks that I get in my lousy Fafco solar heating panels?

Generally I plug the holes with rubber plugs - but this bonduit seems like better stuff than what I'm using for the incessant leaks in the solar heating panels.

[Arklin K.]

I was wondering what an 'acceptable' leak was.

Yesterday, it was spewing out of the leak at the rate of a gallon every ten minutes or so (pure guess) ... but it was only dripping after the blue PVC suggestion (thanks whoever suggested that!).

Interestingly, this 4-foot-long spray is what greeted me in the morning:

The pressure is very high with five feet of water above the pool forcing against all the intakes when the equipment is off all night. So it must have turned the drip after yesterday's repair into this stream of water shooting out a few feet to the side.

I plugged this stream using the same technique as yesterday - so we'll see if it lasts.

I think I'll use the stuff mentioned already to cover the whole connection in goop, to protect it from elements, pressure, and vibration over time.

[Arklin K.]

I understand what you're saying now that I see how I can plug the five drains using these cheap rubber stoppers with wing nuts on top.

Since the solar panels are fifteen feet below the pool, and since the pool equipment is five feet below the pool, any major leak will essentially empty the pool.

If I'm home, and if I have these five rubber stoppers, I can unscrew the cover plates on the five drains and then plug up the pipe inside with these plugs.

Thanks for the wonderful idea and advice!

[Arklin K.]

I second that motion!

I am indebted to Bob F. for suggesting this novel method of sucking in the thin PVC glue into the fitting while the pump was running.

It worked like a charm!

STEP 0: I ran the pumps for a few hours during the day which allowed the water on the outside to dry.

STEP 1: Here I am applying the blue PVC glue to be sucked in with the pump running:

STEP 2: Shutting off the pump, 'most' of the leak stopped: STEP 3: In the morning, this is what I found with the pumps off: STEP 4: So I added MORE blue PVC glue! :)

Now if only Bob F. has just as ingenious idea for plugging numerous leaks in the lousy Fafco solar pool heating panels!

[Arklin K.]

Ooops. I made a mistake in my description - and I appreciate your question. You have always noticed stuff I had no clue about.

It's dark now, so I dug up the best picture I could find:

The water flows into the filter pump, and out the filter pump into the filter. At the outlet of the filter pump (but before the filter) is another pipe, which is open ended. At the very end of that open-ended pipe is this ball valve.

So the ball valve is on the end of an open-ended pipe which itself is mounted to the line that goes INTO the filter. Why it's there is beyond me.

If I open the ball valve, water flows out: a) If the filter pump is running, water spews out fast. b) if the filter pump is off, water flows out slower.

I have no idea WHY this ball valve exists. It's like a faucet mounted on top of the output of my filter pump.

What possible use would the ball valve be?

If it's a drain, I have to mention that the filter itself has its own drain (at the bottom) and the pump has a drain (at the bottom of the basket); so why would this drain exist?

[DD_BobK]

Arklin-

Dial back on the theory....no need to replace 90's with sweep 90's. There is no way you need a fourth pump.

Inject some practicality into the design. I may have missed how big the pool /spa combo is but I'm sure there is a simpler solution than what you have or what you're contemplating.

Spending time to think through the required fucn

btw 5' of head is about 2 psi..... not a lot pressure. Back pressure from the filter? Less than 30 psi. Acceptable leaks? how about none? Seriously, there should be no leaks.

cheers Bob

[Arklin K.]

Again, you're astute as you have ascertained something (a mistake I made prior to this post) that I didn't mention - but which you noticed - which is that the leak has been happening for a long time.

In fact, when I bought the house, the pumps were leaking. I just didn't know from WHERE they were leaking (they were wet all over!).

In addition, the two pumps that were leaking most had a whitish clay- looking grout or 'caulking' all around the two leaking fittings at exactly the spot where I put the blue PVC glue.

It must have been that this tan grout or caulking or whatever paste, was put there to stop the leak. The interesting thing is you never saw this paste because I chipped it away, not knowing WHAT it was when I was cleaning up the pool when it was empty.

Of course, with the pool empty, nothing happened when I chipped away that tan hard ring of grout around the fitting. But when I refilled the pool, then I had this huge leak.

What amazes me is you noticed all that without me ever once mentioning that I had removed this clayish grout which, in pure hindsight, I can assume the previous owner added to seal the very leaks that you guys helped me seal just now.

Interestingly, when I asked the original question for this thread, I suspected the answer would be whatever that clay-like grout material was. But the answer turned out to be blue PVC cement!

What a weird twist of fate!

[Arklin K.]

Except that the ball valve is the end of the line, i.e., it's a faucet.

If I turn the ball valve on, water spews onto the ground just like a faucet would.

The only thing I can think of is that the ball valve faucet is there to either allow us to drain something or to back-wash something.

If it's a drain faucet, it makes little sense to me because the filter has its own drain plug.

If it's for backwash (e.g., you hook a garden hose to it somehow), it also makes little sense because the open end is not threaded and the pleated filter isn't the type that gets backwashed anyway.

So, having a 'faucet' attached to my filter pump (in the form of a ball valve) still makes no sense to me. Certainly I've never used it for anything.

[krw]

I've never seen cartridge filters used for a large pool; always sand or DE (with DE *much* preferred).

Is it an inline chlorinator (for Tri-Chlor tablets)?

[Arklin K.]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not sure what a '90' is but the pool was built in 2001 and it's complicated. Too complicated. It's certainly not KISS.

Interesting. If it were me, I would have put the pumps at the same level as the pool deck.

Thanks. I didn't know what is considered 'normal'.

[Arklin K.]

Googling for "fafco repair kit instructions" I find these instructions:

Essentially, the manufacturer sells (only through distributors) an expensive mechanical repair 'kit' which consists of three components: a) A curved knive to slit open the panel's many tubes b) A dozen rubber cones to shove into the now-wide-open panel tube c) A thin allen wrench to use to shove the plug into the hole you cut with the knife

I have the repair kit. It's a pain to use - but it works (eventually).

What I really need is a second source for the little conical plugs:

[krw]

Most will self prime that far. If not, a little water in the pump basket is enough. If there aren't any leaks the pump will stay primed.

[DD_BobK]

A "90" is an 90 degree elbow.

A 2" PVC 90 deg elbow vs a sweep 90 saves about the equivalent length of pipe ~3'. Depending on the pipe size in your installation & flow, it may or may not make a susbtaintial difference in power consumption.

take a look at

cheers Bob

[trader4]

Is there any means to drain the pool? Maybe they planned this as a future drain, but never completed it by adding a fitting and hose.