Better ideas for fixing leak right at the pool pump inlet (no room!)

Page 2 of 3  
On Sat, 26 May 2012 17:23:58 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

There is just the cartridge filter (two huge pleated cloth cartridges). Big one:
Little one:

In addition, there is this weird 'sanitation filter' cartridge on the outlet of the pool filter:

That's it, other than the baskets in the skimmers and in the debris canister.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I've never seen cartridge filters used for a large pool; always sand or DE (with DE *much* preferred).

Is it an inline chlorinator (for Tri-Chlor tablets)?

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 26 May 2012 16:08:09 -0700, Oren wrote:

I have no idea 'what' that red ball valve is for but it's on the outlet side of the filter pump. I 'guess' it's a drain for the filter but the filter space ship bubble has its own drain so I'm not sure what its purpose is.
BTW, there is this strange filter in the outlet of the filter space ship. - AQUATECH AQTCG35 29135Q
Here's a picture of one side of it:

And, here's a picture of the placement in the line going out of the regular pool filter:

Does anyone have one of these?
Do you think they do anything useful?
I googled them and this is what I found: http://aquathority.com/sanitizer_cartridges.asp
They seem to be a 'sanitizer' (which makes little sense to me since chlorine is my sanitizer).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 26 May 2012 19:49:09 -0700, Oren wrote:

Ooops. I made a mistake in my description - and I appreciate your question. You have always noticed stuff I had no clue about.
It's dark now, so I dug up the best picture I could find:

The water flows into the filter pump, and out the filter pump into the filter. At the outlet of the filter pump (but before the filter) is another pipe, which is open ended. At the very end of that open-ended pipe is this ball valve.
So the ball valve is on the end of an open-ended pipe which itself is mounted to the line that goes INTO the filter. Why it's there is beyond me.
If I open the ball valve, water flows out: a) If the filter pump is running, water spews out fast. b) if the filter pump is off, water flows out slower.
I have no idea WHY this ball valve exists. It's like a faucet mounted on top of the output of my filter pump.
What possible use would the ball valve be?
If it's a drain, I have to mention that the filter itself has its own drain (at the bottom) and the pump has a drain (at the bottom of the basket); so why would this drain exist?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 26 May 2012 21:54:47 -0700, Oren wrote:

Except that the ball valve is the end of the line, i.e., it's a faucet.

If I turn the ball valve on, water spews onto the ground just like a faucet would.
The only thing I can think of is that the ball valve faucet is there to either allow us to drain something or to back-wash something.
If it's a drain faucet, it makes little sense to me because the filter has its own drain plug.
If it's for backwash (e.g., you hook a garden hose to it somehow), it also makes little sense because the open end is not threaded and the pleated filter isn't the type that gets backwashed anyway.
So, having a 'faucet' attached to my filter pump (in the form of a ball valve) still makes no sense to me. Certainly I've never used it for anything.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Is there any means to drain the pool? Maybe they planned this as a future drain, but never completed it by adding a fitting and hose.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 27 May 2012 06:06:10 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

There is no other drain - so that is a logical conclusion that it's a drain hose bib (without the drain hose attached).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 5/26/2012 10:13 PM, Arklin K. wrote:

air bleed, so you can burp it?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That valve is likely to help the pump to prime by reducing back pressure. If your pump has trouble priming, you can let the water out easily and after it primes, just close it. If it's just sticking up in the air, that seems a bad design. However, after looking at the photos you've posted... Phil
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Unless he has something very unusual, all that's normally used on pool eqpt is a small valve to let air out at the top of the filter tank. No need for a 2" valve to prime the pump. And his pool eqpt is located lower than the pool....
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

+1 >>>>>>cut the mess apart and redesign it with ease of service as priority #1 <<<<<
ease of service is a very important priority, consider the liberal use of PVC unions (they're not expensive)
OP-
Great photos, really helps showing the situation.
with respect to PVC solvent cement bonding:
1) don't use the quick dry cements, they result in the poorest performing joints 2) use primer & light or medium bodied cements (on 2" and smaller) 3) PVC cements are not designed to be used to "flow into leaks" that appear after assembly 4) for "maybe I can seal the leak" type repairs....... try Bonduit.
Unfortunately Bonduit requires a dispenser gun & 2-part cartridges. The stuff is not cheap but in most situations (with just about any materials) will stop a leak.
http://www.polywater.com/bonduit.asp
cheers Bob
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 26 May 2012 12:49:27 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

When/if I get more money, that's what I would do.
I'd move the pumps back and put unions in so that I can disconnect the entire pump for servicing.
I'd put a 220v box on the concrete so that I can disconnect the motor without having to spin the entire motor to unscrew the wiring elbow that goes into the back of the motor.
I'd ELIMINATE elbows in the plumbing, making gentle curves (using flexible pipe) so as to reduce friction.
And, in California, if you hire anyone, they must, by law, install multi- speed pumps (single-speed motors are illegal) so I'd probably upgrade the three pumps and panel.
Plus, while I'm there, I'd connect a fourth pump to the existing capped off vacuum line that goes to the middle of the pool - and then I could use a vacuum when the cleaning system goes whacky (which is frequent).
Of course, that pump would need another filter, so I'd add a filter.
And then I'd put a shed over the whole thing to keep the elements from ruining the equipment.
Of course, 'that' will have to wait 'till I have money!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Arklin-
Dial back on the theory....no need to replace 90's with sweep 90's. There is no way you need a fourth pump.
Inject some practicality into the design. I may have missed how big the pool /spa combo is but I'm sure there is a simpler solution than what you have or what you're contemplating.
Spending time to think through the required fucn
btw 5' of head is about 2 psi..... not a lot pressure. Back pressure from the filter? Less than 30 psi. Acceptable leaks? how about none? Seriously, there should be no leaks.
cheers Bob
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 26 May 2012 21:52:41 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

Thanks for the advice. I'm not sure what a '90' is but the pool was built in 2001 and it's complicated. Too complicated. It's certainly not KISS.

Interesting. If it were me, I would have put the pumps at the same level as the pool deck.

Thanks. I didn't know what is considered 'normal'.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Most will self prime that far. If not, a little water in the pump basket is enough. If there aren't any leaks the pump will stay primed.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On May 27, 1:59am, " snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

Yep, the pool pumps I've worked with have all been above the water level of the pool, typically on flat ground with the water level a foot or so lower and they self-prime.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 27 May 2012 06:22:59 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

In fact the pump *should* be above the pool level so a leak at the pump/filter won't drain the pool.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

A "90" is an 90 degree elbow.
A 2" PVC 90 deg elbow vs a sweep 90 saves about the equivalent length of pipe ~3'. Depending on the pipe size in your installation & flow, it may or may not make a susbtaintial difference in power consumption.
take a look at
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pvc-pipes-equivalent-length-fittings-d_801.html
cheers Bob
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That may be his definition of normal, but I'd say it's not typical and not my definition. Lots of pools have a small drip here and there. For example, on the multi-port selector valve on mine, right now there is a slow drip. Not worth screwing around with something that leaks a pint a day, outside, where it's not a problem.
Also, here we winterize so there are various plugs that have to be removed and re-installed each season. If one of them has a tiny drip, I'll tighten it, but if that doesn't work, I'm not about to take out the plug on the bottom of the filter again over a pint a day drip.
You can drive yourself nuts over trying to make everything perfect. Some people seem to think you should tear the whole thing apart just because it's not plumbed pretty and it's harder to repair. I think they are seriously underestimating the amount of work involved. And for what? It's working, isn't it? And you just replaced a valve. If there comes a time when there is a major overhaul, eg you're switching to a DE filter, then I'd consider what can be changed at the same time to make it a better design.
As far as using flex pipe instead of elbows for efficiency, I wouldn't worry about it. Rigid PVC is cheap, sturdier, last longer etc. And those elbows don't amount to that much in the grand scheme. You just minimize their use where possible, use 45's instead of 90's if u can, etc.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

T4-
You're adding words to my posts........
The OP used the word "normal", I never did. If I were to use the word "normal" I guess it would apply to the "typical" pool installation in service. Probably thrown together by someone of limited skill & knowledge and most likely leaking a tolerable amount. Representative of the poor workmanship that has become the norm is the US. :(
I merely suggested that if he's doing a repair he should shoot for no leaks.
Unfortunately the OP is working on a jacked up installation with what appears to minimal plumbing experience. The idea of attempting to seal a leak by drawing PVC solvent into the leak is pretty amateurish. That's not how PVC solvent cement is meant to work. But "hey, whatever works".
The installation he's dealing with is such a mess I suppose nothing really matters expect reducing the leak to an acceptable level. The overall, redesign, rebuild can wait for another day.
However, he did mention adding a 4th pump..........
With the pump below the pool water line leaks will drain the pool. With the pump above the pool water line, the pump prime might be lost.
Pools lose a lot water due to evap so a small leak probably won't use a great deal of additional water.
cheers Bob
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.