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But Jesus never said "go forth to your public school and pray", did he?

Students pray in public schools all the time, most often just before a surprise test. At all other times it is unnecessary, obtrusive, intrusive and arrogant.
Why is it that you make it sound like praying to the closet is a bad thing?
Judaism requires ten or more in

Except for that pesky 1st amendment thing of separating church and state.

did a fine, if somewhat long in occurring, job with slavery. OTOH, there were those pesky people who imposed prohibition on us
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While I know that, some may not, I don't see a difference here. My view of religion is that it is a private thing, do it whenever it is appropriate for you, but making it into a Tebow spectacle constitutes proselytizing and is not permitted in schools.
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Han
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On 1/25/2012 11:16 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:

it just makes me sick that this amendment is taken out of context constantly. It was written to keep the Government out of the church. NOT to keep the church out of the government. There IS no separation, and those words 'church and state' do not appear in the text.
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Steve Barker
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It irks me just a pesky little bit, but as an agnostic,it's just a really tiny little bit. It's your SCOTUS who have interpreted the amendment to mean that the state shouldn't interfere in church and religious businesses, and tha includes offically allowing/sponsoring religious expressions. I think that is generally a good™ thing. As mentioned I'm against anything that allows or sponsors proselytizing.
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Han wrote:

But proselytizing is an integral part of both Christianity and Islam.
To the faithful, prohibiting proselytizing is no different than prohibiting baptism or cutting off the heads of unbelievers.
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proselytize all you want, but not in public schools. it should be pointed out that proselytizing is NOT an integral part to lots of other religions
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Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:

If the government prohibits proselytizing in government schools then, by definition, the government is meddling in the free exercize of religion. In your view, it seems, you would require those dedicated to spreading their word to affiliate themselves with a foreign deity to avoid offending the irreligious.
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So you would let pedophiles proselytize in gov't schools in the free exercise of their speech?

irreligious? big difference between being irreligious and non-religious or especially non-xian, but I bet you would be just as offended if your xian child was subjected to the very same proselytizing by muslims or jews in your "gov't" school.
and let's not forget how tolerant you xians were of the muslims that wanted to open a mosque just blocks away from the Towers site.
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I'm all for it. And a gay bar, to one side of the mosque, and a pork butcher shop on the other side.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
and let's not forget how tolerant you xians were of the muslims that wanted to open a mosque just blocks away from the Towers site.
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as long as we can have a gay bar and a shooting range using jesus for targets next to churches
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Plonk!
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
as long as we can have a gay bar and a shooting range using jesus for targets next to churches
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Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:

Um, yes, if they met the requirements of being able to speak in a public school (remember, the original context was with pupils being able to express themselves). We already permit gay and lesbian teachers, and readings of "Sally Has Two Mommies".
My ACTUAL view is that schools should prohibit that which falls outside contemporary community standards (we already do that with obscenity). But as long as the current rule is "anything goes," why should religion be excluded?

No, I wouldn't. My religion teaches that what God wants is righteous conduct. To the degree that such proselytizing strengthens the faith - and conduct - of the preacher, it's a Good Thing(tm). My kids won't be affected by it. Nor insulted. We'll wish the Christians well and success in their endeavors.
I'll admit I'm confused by your terminology; what's the difference between "irreligious" and "non-religious?"
Just asking.
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I like that phrase "righteous conduct". I will use it too. In my view righteous conduct doesn't mandate any religion or view except being a "good person"™
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Han
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wrote:

well said
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Han wrote:

You can expand "Righteous Conduct" to include charity, justice, good works, loving kindness, and any number of otherwise positive actions.
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Yes!!
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Han
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as far as I'm concerned, the discussion has evolved into a discussion of whether there should be school/class wide prayer

with that view you must consider that while the contemporary community may have a majority of xians, I doubt that it has a majority of practicing/observant xians and therefore they fall outside of the contemporary community standards. As far as obscenity being outside of the contemporary community standards, where the heck do you live?

prayer in school is not about god, it is about religion. you can't proselytize what you think is the contemporary community of xians...they have already made the choice.

irreligious = anti-religious non-religious = doesn't practice religion
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wrote:

If you'd allow official proselytizing or sanction religious displays (behavior, things) in schools you'd be approving that religion, which is contrary to the law. If you want to come by my house and ask me or tell me things about your religion, I am free to say no, as you are free to try, as long as you do not annoy me.
I'd be more or less politely declining your advances, so if you really want to discuss something, let's arrange a time and place ...
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Han wrote:

I disagree. Merely permitting a behavior is not the same thing as endorsing the behavior. If I showed up at the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in Bermuda shorts and a t-shirt, I'd probably be permitted to attend a performance of The Marriage of Figaro. But I bet you a dollar, the blue-noses wouldn't approve of my attire.
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There is a difference between proselytizing and Bermuda shorts, AFAIK. And, no, I don't approve of either under those circumstances. As you said elsewhere - righteous behavior is what should (fill in verb).
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