Backfeed generator through dryer outlet?

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Exactly! but it is never a good idea. Do it safely like a real man, with a transfer switch.

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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

But maybe the primary *is* broken on your dead end street. Or there are several breaks in the line and the only thing still connected to your house is the transformer. You don't know what the state of the distribution lines are, so you can't rely on them to stall the generator if you forget to open the mains. So you need another failsafe.
-Bob
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zxcvbob wrote:

That other failsafe is the training of the line crews and the "Assume all downed power lines are live" campaigns.
Pete C.
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"Pete C." wrote:

You are also failing to follow the long standard engineering practice of having a system setup such that it requires a minimum of two failures for a life threatening fault. You are advocating that homeowners with generators intentionally provide the first failure. So now that lineman is only one ripped glove away from being electrocuted. You may be book smart, but you sure are stupid.
--Dale
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Dale Farmer wrote:

The entire public power utility distribution grid is not built to a "two failures for a life threatening fault" standard.
Pete C.
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I rarely resort to this type of language, but what moron believes a second failsafe procedure is a waste of time, especially when the first one is relying on the human factor?
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JoeSixPack wrote:

The second failsafe procedure is the utility workers training which tells them to treat everything as live, always use their protective gear, ground lines they are working on as applicable, etc.
If you want "two failures for a life threatening fault", then redesign the entire electrical distribution infrastructure so that every transformer is isolating and every line segment is floating, no grounds anywhere. That way any single fault will not in itself cause a life threatening fault. One fault would only reference the voltage on that segment to ground or whatever and not cause a dangerous situation without a second fault to provide another contact point at a different relative voltage.
Pete C.
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I'm sure that a linesman whose been putting in 16 hour days for a week reconnecting lines after a hurricane will appreciate the attitude about booby traps.
Secondly, who said it's only linesmen? Last I heard, homeowners don't have such training, and a 4KV+ line lying in the ground isn't biased as to who it bites. Including unwary homeowners.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It\'s not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Chris Lewis wrote:

Not a booby trap, a normal job hazard and one that the standard procedures for the job address.

Indeed, a live downed line can fry anyone that comes in contact with it, regardless of the source it is energized from. "Always assume any downed power line is live".
Pete C.

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Regardless. If my installation allowed my wife/adult-son to energize a line from the home generator because I didn't bother installing a positive disconnect, and it killed an over-worked, tired lineman who missed one step in his safety procedures, the guy is still dead. Or some stranger touched a down line at an accident scene, that was supposedly switched off by the utility but wasn't actually de-energized yet because of my generator, they are still dead.
And regardless of lawyers, wrongful death suits, contributing factors, or any other 'paper excuse', someone ending up dead because I skimped on a safety feature, isn't going to help me sleep at night.
Some of us care more for our fellow man than to just say, "Well, they obviously didn't follow procedures", or "Another candidate for a Darwin award." Maybe you should go tell the widow of a dead lineman who was working for 20 hours trying to get people their power back, how it's obviously her spouse's fault that he's dead. Or the widow of the rescue squad guy that touched a live wire after the utility folks pulled all the fuses, trying to save someone else's life that they deserve the "Darwin Award" for the year.
daestrom
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daestrom wrote:

I'm single, the switch gear is under control of a single competent person.

The main breaker *is* a positive disconnect. It is not mechanically or electrically interlocked with the other breaker however.

Well, I'm not as concerned with avoiding enabling other people to injure themselves. Every time you drive your car you are also enabling other people to injure themselves and are relying on them to follow procedures such as crosswalks and traffic lights to prevent them from being injured by your car.

If you have sleep issues they have medication for that.

Life is full of risks and as they say "They knew the job was dangerous when they took it". While I'd not be quite so blunt with that widow(er), the bottom line is that the person in question knew they were taking a risk by working excessive hours or short cutting procedures and the ultimate responsibility for the results of that risk land on their shoulders. I enable them to kill themselves every day by simply funding the power utility.
Pete C.
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snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

I've heard the moon is made of green cheese

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/1b98848f699ee436?hl=en &
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/a5779697604bb4bc?hl=en &
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According to the OSHA rules of Ontario. Massive mistakes were made and management would be held responsible and probably jailed for lying about the state of the lines in each case.
The generator hookup people would have their pee-pees slapped but no where near the foreman and the upper people for the deaths.
Now one was in Peurto Rico and there are so many more waiting for jobs that one isn't gonna' be noticed.
Wire a tranfer switch box in with 4 or 6 circuits you want to be backed up and a proper plug on the damn thing. Don't play with people's safety or your own. Your unit coming becoming energized may not be fun either unless you have money to burn.
The meter base does not isolate the neutral. Unless you have a fault in your home it won't be a problem.
wrote:

been
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/1b98848f699ee436?hl=en &
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/a5779697604bb4bc?hl=en &
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I backfeed my paned through a breaker. The backfeed breaker is adjacent to the main breaker. I created a sliding mechanism that makes it impossible to turn on both breakers at the same time. Works, prevents accidental feedback. No messing around with feedback cable. Easy as 1-2-3: 1. Switch main breaker off 2. Mechanism drops out of the way of backfeed breaker 3. Turn on backfeed breaker. OR 1. Turn off backfeed breaker 2. Lift and hold mechanism while 3. Turning on main breaker.

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Illegal in some jurisdictions.
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wrote:

The manufacturers make a very similar product.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

That may be true, but the OEM's have UL Listings for their equipment and your system doesn't. Yours won't pass anywhere that UL Listed Equipment is required by local building codes.
Me
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It all depends on the inspector. If it is effective why would they care. There is a lot of lesser junk out there with a NRTL sticker. Bear in mind U/L listed the old style aluminum wire, FP breakers, SqD AFCIs. and virtually every recalled appliance that bursts into flames or electrocutes the user.
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If it works for you then use it , some people are hung up on UL as if it was a GOD.
wrote:

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Sure, there's nothing the god of UL couldn't forgive you for.
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