Backfeed generator through dryer outlet?

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I've heard that's never actually happened. Can you name one?
Nick
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one example. It does seem unlikely; if your main breaker is closed, your genny should stall immediately when it tries to power the neighborhood. The only way you could kill a lineman is if YOUR line if down and he is fixing it, or if (and even this is a reach) you plugged in while he what handling a nearby line. Of course, even then he is supposed to be protected from live wires by insulation.
Still, a transfer switch avoids the embarrassing chance of continuing to run on generator after you have power back. I did that for an hour once before someone called me.
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wrote:

Couldn't you wire in a light on the power main side to tell you when the power is back on?
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Yup. with the main switch open
wrote:

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I think unless you have some sort of huge generator the load presented by the outside world will look to the generator as pretty much a short to ground. It would really have to be a situation where the power outage resulted in you and your immediate neighbors being islanded. Where I live there are 10 houses on the same pole transformer and even if that were isolated I doubt my 4.4 kW machine could pull that load. Maybe if it were the middle of the night and everyone's fridge just happened to finish cycling before the power went out and and and... I think the risk is nearly zip. But for safety to your machine more so than risk to any lineman it might not be a bad idea to attach a reminder sign to your double male cable or adaptor or whatever you do this with: TURN OFF MAIN BREAKER BEFORE USING
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Precisely.
A friend of a friend suicide-corded his generator into his house, and the generator promptly smoked within seconds of firing up.
He forgot the main breaker.
[It managed to fire up because the generator is automatically not connected during startup, and "engages" when the motor is up to speed. At which point it started belching smoke and stalled out.]
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It\'s not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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snipped-for-privacy@nortelnetworks.com (Chris Lewis) wrote:

all that means is you haven't a clue about what just happened, and what was happening down the line.....
Me
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Your thinking is just plain wrong.....
Me
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Me wrote:

No, I think I'm on solid ground when I say that a load measuring in many megaWatts, maybe hundreds of megaWatts depending on the area of the power outage that I am downstream of, is essentially the same as shorting the generator output to ground.
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What about the downed power line your neighbors, and you.
http://www.google.com / In the aftermath of a disaster there are circumstances that circumvent conventional safety procedures. The utility companies rely heavily on independent construction firms to quickly restore utility lines. Private contractor employees are sometimes less familiars with the territory and the established utility company procedures. On top of everything else there is the stress caused by working long hours in inclement conditions and the pressure to restore power to thousands of customers some of whom are in dire need.
A line crew was dispatched at night to restore power to a small restaurant in a mountainous area. The restaurant was served by a 3-phase, 12.47-kV, tapline, three spans in length. "The crew found that tree limbs had fallen into a corner pole (one span from the restaurant) short-circuiting the line and blowing the fuses back at the tap pole. They also discovered that the restaurant was using a generator to maintain service."
The foreman confirmed that the main breaker at the restaurant was open, isolating the utility service. The crew tested and grounded the line a the tap pole and began repairs. When one lineman climbed the corner pole to remove limbs, he discovered that the jumpers and connectors were damaged and decided to replace them. "When he removed the jumpers, he was positioned in such a way that he was in contact with the under grounded portion of the line," continues Drew. For some reason, the restaurant owner was checking the generator and inadvertently closed the main breaker, backing power through the transformer bank and energizing the line up to the open jumpers. The lineman received a severe shock and died.
8/29/2005 As the number of personal electric generators grows, so does the threat of injury to utility workers and generator operators.
If you connect a generator to your electrical panel without isolating it, it s simply a disaster waiting to happen. A generator thats connected to the power system can result in power lines being energized to line voltage of 7,200 volts or higher, whether theyre on the ground or still in the air. If your generator is not isolated from the Cullman EC distribution system, the transformer at your location acts in reverse and can actually step-up the normal household voltage of your generator to our system voltage. If your generator has energized power lines that are on the ground, the energized lines could prove to be a safety hazard to you, your family, and especially the linemen working to restore power.
As a matter of fact, a utility worker who was repairing damage from Hurricane Dennis was killed this past July in south Alabama because of an improperly installed generator. It is up to you to ensure the safety
Alabama, July 14, 2005 - Sumter Electric Cooperative (SECO) officials report that a South Carolina lineman helping to restore power in Alabama after the damage caused by Hurricane Dennis was killed late Tuesday, reportedly by an improperly installed customer generator.Alabama authorities are looking for the person responsible and indicate that charges are pending
all electric connections must comply with the National Electrical Code. You may be liable for damage to property or injury to people that may result from an improperly installed or operation of an emergency generator.
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Never! In Ontario.
Contractors are not called for emergencies in our area and if they are ever caught working to less than Ontario regulations they are "kicked off" the job and may have charges laid on them. 10K - $100K are common if there is an injury involved. People are tired of paying for accidents and the Legislators are trying to stop it from happenning at any cost.
You do **NOT*** have rights as in a court. There is no 5th amendment. If they find you wrong. You're f**cked You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

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When some minds are made up, no amount of evidence or reasoning can convince them their arguments are faulty. I doubt if they will even respond to your excellent post.
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JoeSixPack wrote:

The first story in his "excellent" post once again shows that the ultimate cause of the lineman's death was his own carelessness in not following proper procedures, not the generator. He was clearly not wearing his HV gloves or other protective gear.
The second story contains no details so a determination of the ultimate cause can't be made. I searched around and was unable to find a detailed report on this incident. It is quite likely that the ultimate cause of the death will be the lineman's own carelessness.
The established procedures for line work, if followed will keep the lineman safe regardless of the electrical state of the lines. I'd be quite interested if you have a detailed report of a fatality where all procedures were followed.
Pete C.
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So it's OK to backfeed? Thanks.
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JoeSixPack wrote:

No, but you won't kill a utility lineman as many have asserted.
Pete C.
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It's not even worth it anymore.
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All of thisdiscussion, which goes on anytime anyone mentions using a generator, is valid. Backfeeding is done and it is not possible for a small generator to energize a significant segment of a power grid. Consider that if a generator is being used then the grid is not intact and how much of it may be connected to a particular house is variable. It could be that your service is down, in which case you can only energize your service lines, possibly on the ground. It may be that your transformer fuse is blown or the primary is totally disconnected, in which case you may energize your neighbors house and the high voltage terminal of the transformer. A small generator is perfectly capable of doing this. The problem is not energizing the normal loads but energizing lines which may not have any load and are presumed to be dead. I am sure that linemen are aware of the dangers of possible backfeeding but others may not be and are not aware of an energized line hidden in debris. Why create even a potential hazard to people and property under emergency circumstances if not necessary? There would not be rules and regulations regarding backfeeding if there were no hazards involved. A hazard does not mean you can't ever do it without anything bad happening, but that the possibility is significant. Don Young

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It's worth remembering that in the case of most major events such as our ice storm, or the hurricanes of this season, it's not just one line break, it's _thousands_. The segment a generator might _try_ to energize could be just your lines lying on the ground, just your neighbors on the same pole pig, or larger. Certainly, if it's anything much more than that, your generator will stall (and/or smoke) out. But if it ain't, you may have created a booby trap between you and the pole awaiting anybody who walks too near, or your neighbor's house, or up on a pole. Possibly considerably higher than 120V. Ie: if we backfed the feed with a generator with a break between the last two poles coming to our house, there's a live 4KV line on the ground waiting to bite _anyone_ walking along our driveway.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It\'s not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
  Click to see the full signature.
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It's not megawatts, or watts that kill you, it's current. Even milliamps can kill when penetrating the skin. Those milliamps can enter the body quite easily at higher voltages. Backfeeding through a transformer can produce voltages quite sufficient to conduct those milliamps through a human body.
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No; we have had to too many times before.
The world is not a perfectly safe place and far more people use far more common ways to kill themselves and others with gennys.
Vaughn (a guy with a transfer panel)
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