Back Up Power for Refrigerator/Freezer

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wrote:

Frequent outages are a sign of poor maintenance, trees or no trees. Our other house had outages almost every day for a while. It was a municipal system and yes, the maintenance was crap. You could count on losing power in any little thunderstorm.

That's pretty damned poor. They should be able to isolate it to a small area in minutes, if not by the complaints alone.

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On 10/10/2013 9:35 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

CY:I like it, may use that some day.

CY: I also went lifeboat, can't afford a hard wired standby generator. Worth note, some window AC can run on portable generator.

CY: For sure. I spent some time with catalogs like Northern Tool. Ran the numbers, and IIRC, a gallon of gas provides about 2,000 watts for one hour. Some variation, but not much.

CY: I suspect the run time of the 5 is more than that, but I know the concept. With a bigger genset, the temptation is to run more devices. Hair dryer, and toaster, and so on. Well, lets see. If my 2,000 number is right, then wide open throttle would be about two hours on a 5 gal tank, so maybe you're not far off. Or maybe you're spot on, and I'm off? Could be that I'm the wrong one.

CY: In western NYS, I've found natural gas to be totally reliable. I've heard that some gas plants are electric power, so when the grid goes down, the natural gas goes down soon after. Gasoline and propane have the advantage of being stored onsite.

CY: Chain, padlock, and ugly dog are needed. I've heard that generators are a very high theft item during power cuts. As for me, I know of two people who have had them stolen.
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Per Stormin Mormon:

Call me paranoid, but I would think that, when there is a power outage, the first thing that comes to mind for a certain small segment of the population is "Let's go out and see if we can find a generator or two...".
Since our town was anointed with a tattoo parlor and a finger nail shop some years back - and the local jeweler started chaining his doors shut - I suspect we now have out share of that certain small segment...
--
Pete Cresswell

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On 10/10/2013 5:43 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

I think there is a combination of factors. One is that the unprepared would like to have a generator. Second, is to "get even with those rich people who didn't pay their fair share, and bring them down a bit."
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Thursday, October 10, 2013 6:09:18 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Along the lines of getting even, a neighbor told me he heard a story on the radio during hurricane Sandy that some thieves tried to steal a generator that was running, but it was well chained down, so instead they just put holes in the gas tank.
Many around here only ran their;s during the day and took them in at night. Seems reasonable to me, unless it's so hot or cold that you need AC or Heat, but the weather was mild. But then you have some buffoons with the whole house generators that kept them running 24/7 making a lot of noise. It's like they want everyone to know they have one. You can hear the damn thing half a block away and it's still objectionable. But I guess they don't mind listening to it themselves. Either that or they are too dumb to realize it has an off switch on it.
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On 10/10/2013 7:08 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

1) Yep, I can believe the punctured gas tank. 2) The loud genny folks probably wearing headsets for the TV?
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On 10/10/2013 07:08 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

My 17kW Generac doesn't make any more noise than an idling car. I run it 24/7 during outages and can barely hear it in the house.
OTOH, a neighbor has a China Harbor Freight piece of crap...now that thing is loud!
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On 10/11/2013 5:16 AM, Smarty Pants wrote:

Maybe the Chinaman inside is lonely, and wants to go home. Did you go over, and play Chinese lullabies on tape recorder?
Glad to know Generac are fairly quiet. I've also been pleased with my ETQ brand, 1200 watt. Also reasonably quiet.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Friday, October 11, 2013 8:05:21 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Maybe new ones suddenly got quiet, but I doubt it. I wound up getting a 12KW Generac unit that was about 5 years old from a neighbor because it quit during an outage and the service company told him it wasn't worth fixing. It looked almost like new, so I thought I'd see if maybe I could fix it and use it. It started up and ran, so I heard what it sounded like. And it sure wasn't like any idling car, except maybe one with a broken muffler. More like a loud garden tractor, which kind of makes sense, since it's a similar ~25hp engine.
Here's a youtube of one if you don't believe me:
Make sure you listen until about 25 secs in, when it actually starts. Before that there is something in the background that does sound more like a car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cJX8M2VvKk


Let me know what you think after you watch the video.
I've also been

One big difference there you're talking about an engine that's an order of magnitude smaller than one in a whole house type. The quietest ones are the inverter type, where they sythensize the AC waveform. That decouples the frequency from the engine speed. At low loads, the engine can run at lower RPMS instead of full speed.

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On 10/11/2013 8:29 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

So, your loud generator some how disproves the other poster who said he had a quiet one? What's the point you're trying to make?
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Friday, October 11, 2013 10:30:17 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

He said his 17KW Generac is quiet. You said:
"Glad to know Generac are fairly quiet."
I've seen and heard a few of the Generac whole house generators. I worked on the one I received for free and had it running. It sounded like the one in the youtube video I provided. None of them sounded even close to an idling car. Maybe new ones are quieter but I still doubt they are as quiet as an idling car. But the point is your assumption that Generac are fairly quiet is wrong, unless you think the one in that video is quiet. What's there is typical of what the one's I have heard sounded like.
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Per snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net:

Wouldn't it be largely a function of the type of muffler used?
Or do some air-cooled engines make noise above and beyond exhaust noise?
--
Pete Cresswell

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On Friday, October 11, 2013 4:44:18 PM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

No question most of the noise is from the exhaust. How much quieter you could make it with a better muffler, IDK. The muffler on the Generac I worked on was fairly large, not like you'd find on a garden tractor. I would say it was about 18" x 10", by 5". I don't know the dynamics of muffler design, ie if you made it 30% bigger, how much difference it would make. But then you also have the problem of bigger muffler, now you need bigger cabinet, etc. These things sell for $2500, so cost is a factor.
One thing that lowers the noise is using an 1800 RPM engine instead of 3600. The low cost generators run at 3600. The more expensive, liquid cooled, etc run at 1800. For smaller portable, the quietest are the inverter type, where the AC is synthesized, allowing the engine speed to be decoupled from the freq. So, with no or little load the engine can be near idle, quieter and using less fuel. But last time I looked it was like $4000 for one that was 4KW or so. A lot compared to the China specials.
And there is other noise from any engine besides just the exhaust.
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On 10/11/2013 7:29 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

The 10kw liquid cooled Generac gensets I installed back in the 90's were my favorite because the engine ran at 1,800rpm which made for a very quiet unit that was not overstressed. The service problem that affected all the Generac gensets back then was a horrible oil pressure switch which seemed to fail on all of them. I even looked at getting a replacement switch meant for an old model Ford truck engine. The loudest gensets by far are the 3,600rpm screamers. A 10-20kw air cooled genset can be very loud depending on the sound insulation of the housing. My favorite air cooled gensets were the Onan 15kw 4cyl air cooled gensets which I installed in a number of grocery stores. I wish I had one for the house. The darn things are actually fairly quiet even though being air cooled. ^_^
TDD
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On Friday, October 11, 2013 5:02:04 PM UTC-4, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Those are the ones I'm talking about. They are what you typically find for residential use, no? Because people aren't going to pay for the 1800 RPM water cooled, that probably cost 3 - 4X and also come in higher output than most houses would need.
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On 10/11/2013 4:38 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I installed a number of 10kw liquid cooled Generac gensets in homes that were the 4cyl 1,800 rpm units. The 10kw gensets had a Turkish Fiat 4 cylinder liquid cooled engine and I seem to recall a 12 or 15kw unit that had a Nissan 4cyl liquid cooled engine. All were installed in homes and I even installed a 40kw Kohler genset in a home. My late friend GB built a doghouse which matched the house to camouflage the big Kohler. I remember the Kohler having a Ford liquid cooled engine. I could swear I saw an Onan that had a Slant Six in it. o_O
TDD
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On Friday, October 11, 2013 8:09:33 PM UTC-4, The Daring Dufas wrote:

It looks like Guardian's quiet series that runs on nat gas now starts at 22KW. But they also have a diesel residential serios that starts at 15KW. So, you're right, it's possible Smarty has one of those.
But I wouldn't buy a Generac anything after looking at the ratings and stories at Amazon for their basic whole house nat gas generators. Last time I looked, they had a lot of 5 star ratings and a lot of 1 star and not much in between. The 1 star were people claiming to have units that showed up inoperable, failed in the first few months, failed right after the 2 year warranty was up, etc. And so many of those with problems were saying that go poor customer service from Generac. You expect to see some complaints on any products, but what was there on Amazon looked unusually bad to me.
The 10kw gensets had a Turkish Fiat 4

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On 10/11/2013 08:29 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I don't need a youtube video.
I have a 17kW Generac 6' from the back of my house so I know first-hand what they sound like. I would say it sounds like an idling car.
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On 10/12/2013 12:43 PM, Smarty Pants wrote:

In the anecodtal evidence debate, it's two to one for quiet.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Saturday, October 12, 2013 1:57:21 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

The problem is even well into s discussion, little info is provided. He says "I know what they sound like" What exactly is "they" besides that it's 17KW? Nat gas? Diesel? 1800 RPM, 3600 RPM, air cooled, water cooled, which specific model, how old, etc. There are a lot Generac out there.
I don't doubt some are quieter than others. But his post and your response to it, left the impression that "Generacs" are quiet. Some may be. The ones I've heard and the one in the video Smarty apparently won't look at, aren't.
If he provides the model number we can go look at the noise spec.
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