Automatic fire sprinklers

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A compromise might be to have sprinklers at fireplaces, kitchens, laundry rooms and gas heat/hw. Dryers are common fire starter. Lint plus hot is bad.
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I'd go even farther and outlaw electricity to the house, someone here once said "If it saves ONE life it's worth it" so......
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Tell you what I have apartment buildings I take care of which are all concrete design and they have had fires which never where more than a room or contents. That's the way to build if you want to keep fire from spreading. My 45 year old house has real concrete block walls in garage and real plaster with steel mesh not dry wall like you have today. If we did not build shit paper houses we would not need sprinklers mandated.
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This whole thread is totally useless. This kind of shit is always propagated by "safety zealots" ( If it saves OOOOOOONE life ..... ) who are quickly followed by politicians who want to get re-elected by passing "feel good" (do nothing - unenforceable) laws.
Yeah, lets pass a law that says that everyone has to have sprinker systems in their house. So ok ...... you can force people to install them but you can't force them to maintain or even keep them in running condition. Lets say a fire occurs and the sprinkler system doesn't work because it wasn't maintained. Someone dies. Some one goes to jail. So now what? ....Does the person who died come back to life? No? Oh yeah, that's right. Some one gets sued and the family gets a lot of money or the guy goes bankrupt or doesn't have the means to pay and all of this is SUUUUUURE to make the next asshole who doesn't want to maintain a system think twice. Yeah ..... sure that's going to happen. Yep ..... Uh Huh!
In the meantime, people are paying millions of dollars to install and maintain system so that ...... what ..... a few lives a year are saved? The safety zealots say that it's worth it? Then let them pay for it.
This is all just as stupid as outlawing guns to law abiding people so that the criminals wont use them to commit crimes.
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On Jan 12, 9:39 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

I like that.
Thanks, I just may use that when the opportunity presents itself.
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Just got word from local FM on new rules to install sprinklers in Allegheny County Pa. 1- registered master plumber only can install 2- certified flow test 3- plan by design professional that means architect or engineer 4- several water company's will not t off main line you will have to install a separate water line to house 5- we have major pressure issues her that means pumps and tanks and fire alarm monitoring of system yea they can do this all for $3500.00 average WTF who came up with that assigned figure it will be at least twice that in this county and that's if pumps etc not involved. needless to say new housing starts are totally flat in this county for spring and 84 lumber located in this state just announced more store closings and layoffs and closing of a truss manufacturing plant.
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On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 18:01:03 -0800 (PST), nick markowitz

A VFW I used to frequent was going to have to install a sprinkler system, at a cost of over $100K. It's a one-story building, with a zillion windows and doors, any one of which could be used in an instant. ...and no one sleeps there.

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nick markowitz wrote:

The number of foreclosures will supposedly hit a peak this year. Article here: http://tinyurl.com/4mb9jkb
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About 3 years ago I went through that. Prior to the start of build, builder swore that $5K would cover the cost of the sprinklers. Mid build, revised esitmate was $8K. Final cost was $12K.
Why? Only 2 licensed fire supression installers in county, knew they had a good thing going, wouldn't agree to a binding contract in advance.
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James Are you saying that you can identify a specific instance of a multiple fatality fire in a property that is protected by a complete automatic fire sprinkler system. A yes or no answer would be appreciated. -- Tom Horne
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I'm not saying that at all. I don't know one way or another. The original post, below, says nothing about the presence or absence of a sprinkler system. It just says there are no records of multiple deaths. I'm guessing now the intention was to say in locations with sprinklers but that's not in the post.

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Then some one was emptying those traps or all are in warm environment but any dry system you open around here you will find water I have 38 systems I keep an eye on and all 38 can not be put in wrong different installers and different years all use compressed air only one I do not have to screw with is one that has a nitrogen tank on it. I maintain the air system in a darkroom and get water in it as well and it has all kinds of traps filters etc but we still have to have desiccant units at the discharge points so air is clean and dry and does not cause problems when blowing off negatives. Like I said I have phone numbers of techs ,sprinkler guys and FM who will tell you same thing all the dry systems around here need drained at least monthly some time bi monthly or your in trouble.during the winter. maybe not this month maybe not 3-4 months but you will have a problem. It is the nature of the beast here. Where would you ,like me to send you all the FD and insurance reports.
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You also forget your talking a military installation to a civilian one that's a very big difference. Military always uses highest grade of materials etc and idiot proofs everything. unfortunately my brother in law who was CPO and a communications officer on a sub found out when he came back to civilian life his skills did not easily transfer back we do things way differently in civilian life than in the military. I see it all the time with guys who are highly skilled military people who skills do not transfer back It is a dam shame. But its like apples and oranges. Some come home and get easily employed while many do not depending what you did for the military.
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You were the one spouting numbers... 20 per year... I am not going to guess, it is up to you to back your statistics and conclusion reached from a very shaky and recent data set to say that the requirements for GFCI's in bathrooms and other damp locations had NO effect at all on the number of fatalities... All I claimed was that such things would not be required if there was not a trend of accidents...
You want to use statistics you need to use them properly and have access to more than a few years of data to make such concrete claims...
Its all on you Smitty... Either find those numbers going back say to the time when homes were mostly electrified or admit you only looked up the most recent numbers which BEST supported your statements and move on...
~~ Evan
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I have seen GFCI prevent many accidents over the years but I have also seen them bypassed as well. where back to the people who get zapped are the ones using frayed extension cords or cords with grounds cut off and plugged in back wards etc etc. Every time you read an electrocution report in any of the trade magazines the individual has done something to cause the accident. latest article was on a farm where pressure washer was totally corroded safety shields off and no ground and gfci bypassed wonder why some one died.
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So exactly what is the "maintenance" on a basic sprinkler system? I'm asking because I'm installing sprinklers in the garage I'm building. I ran water pipes off the main cold coming in and I bought some of those sprinklers with the little expansion glass pieces in the centers. You certainly can't test tripping one of them because then you have to replace it.
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On 13/01/2011 4:56 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:

In our neck of the woods you'd require a back-flow preventer on your sprinkler system to avoid contamination of the domestic supply. That has to be inspected annually. Check with your local AHJ regarding any further requirements. You may be required to interconnect your smoke alarms to a flow switch. If it's a heated garage and depending on your location, you may require a low temperature alarm. In fact it might not be a bad idea to have one anyway and interconnect it to your monitored security system.
--
Frank Kurz
www.firetechs.net
  Click to see the full signature.
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Re the bridge analogy- did they replace the bridge not only to save lives but also to have a bridge in operation? If an old bridge falls down not only do people die but you've got to replace the bridge anyway, and in the years it takes to do that you've got no bridge.
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Good point, about bridge availability.
But the probability of the entire bridge failing is small. Plus California has speciality contractors that excel at putting bridges & freeways back into service VERY quickly.
You can buy a lot of "down time" for $10 billion.
And you have to factor in the probability of failure over time (ie probability of failure on a per year basis)
cheers Bob
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So, about how many people have any kind of security system in their house? They're pretty rare here in small-town Midwest.
Cindy Hamilton
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