Automatic fire sprinklers

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I "think" his point is this
Rich people buy nice houses and therefore are bad Poor people don't buy nice houses which is also bad Some people know many people who don't sign on to an socialist heath care plan because they aren't sick
I could be wrong
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My biggest worry we put all these systems in homes which will probably not need them for 30-40 years and will they work when called on? But the real problem is existing housing what has been done to protect those who need it most. How many times in fatal fires no working smoke detectors and the same thing will happen with sprinklers the same people who need them the most will be the ones to turn them off and not maintain them. I wonder how many 100% sprinkled community's over the last 10 years I could walk into and find sprinklers turned off and smokes disabled. how many GFCI and Arc Faults will work???
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Which is why the requirement for smoke detectors has changed over the years from requiring a smoke detector to requiring *hardwired* smoke detectors...
Batteries seem to be something that people are unable to replace in life safety devices even if they are still *good* twice a year to ensure that the things will actually work when they are needed... Hence the evolution of the requirement...
As far as having sprinkler systems disabled in any building that requires such systems for permitting and occupancy -- well that is a totally different matter, that was an intentional act to disable the sprinkler system made by someone who deliberately chose to do so... Better hope no one ever dies in a home which is mandated to be protected by a sprinkler system... Those deaths would no longer be classified as "Accidental: Fire" and would be "Homicide: Criminal Negligence"... Depending on what your state laws are you could be up for a manslaughter charge and do 10 to 15 years or up on murder charges and do 25 to life for turning off a required life safety device...
~~ Evan
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Even better, say your sprinkler system has an "accident" resulting in flood damage and the customer sues you when it may not be your fault. The end result of these "mandatory" safety laws is usually more lawsuits
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...
I recall the early 90's when Texas enacted a number of strict fire codes which resulted in a lot of homes that could have easily had basic fire protection but didn't because of the extra cost involved. Mandatory sprinkler systems sounds nice to a bureaucrat, they never have to deal with the aftermath
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Ya know ..... I think your on to something there.
That all sounds pretty reasonable to me.
That allows us to conclude that there's no difference between rich people and poor people. And since it's ok for the government to pass laws for our own protection .... if a law was passed that required everyone to stay healthy, there'd be no reason for any kind of health care plan ..... at all !
OHMYGOD! Why didn't you think of this before now?
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Thanks for clearing that up Mark, it all makes sense to me now.
Doug
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Perhaps you don't quite....wait.......BASS LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On Jan 11, 9:03am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Oh I see for the sake of the builders we should allow them to continue to condemn communities to the cost of manual fire protection for the life of each new structure. Umm I vote no! -- Tom Horne
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On Jan 11, 8:03am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

That never stops bureaucracy
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Amen! And then consider the cost of all the GFCIs attached to hairdryers and curling irons in the past 20 years - millions of diollars, when 99% of the outlets they are plugged into are already protected by GFCIs.
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Right, 20 people safe TODAY...
Want to tell me how many fatalities there were from those electrocution accidents 30 or 40 years ago before they became required ?
How far back did your statistical analysis go there Smitty ?
~~ Evan
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The town where a friend of mine built a house 15+ years ago required sprinklers. The pipes ran through an unheated basement. I asked about freezing and he said that because the pipes ran through the basement it wasn't just water in the pipes, it's water plus antifreeze. Obviously if there's a fire and the antifreeze all gets sprayed they'd have to refresh the system with new antifreeze.
It's a pretty small cost to add sprinklers to new construction. Fires are rare but they're expensive as hell. And you can rebuild a house; you can't rebuild a burned-to-death person.
I've lived through one fire, in an apartment building. Two blocks from the firehouse and we got everyone out okay (my neighbor and I ran around banging on doors until it got too scary to stay). I'd have loved to have sprinklers (the building was from 1921 and didn't even have closed-off staircases).
I asked an office building fire safety director once what maintenance was required for the paraffin sprinkler heads and he said he couldn't recall a case of a malfunction. It's a pretty simple device and there are millions upon millions of them installed. I've never gotten wet working inside an office or walking into a store.
As far as the Constitution, it does state that anything not specifically addressed in it is relegated to the states, so there's nothing unconstitutional about Pennsylvania passing such a law, unless of course the state Constitution prohibits it. Rather doubtful.
Copyright 2011 by Shaun Eli. All rights reserved. www.BrainChampagne.com
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I'd like to see if they really save lives. How many people are killed by smoke inhalation before a sprinkler would activate? I'm thinking of a smoldering sofa or mattress that can kill you long before a flame gets hot enough to set off a sprinkler head. In the case of a heater fires, it may make a difference as the fire is in another area of the house.
As for property damage, it does save fire damage, but can replace it with water damage.
I'm not for or against, I just want to see more facts before deciding.
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According to the NFPA records there has never been a multiple fatality fire in the US. Their records go back to around 1900. Most of the fatalities have been things like smoking in bed where the smoker was cooked, but nobody else, which would seem to answer your question. This includes hotels, nursing homes, hospitals, etc., in addition to residences.

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I've seen multiple fatality fires just here in the local news in NC so something is wrong with your source.
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http://www.legeros.com/history/nc/fatal.shtml
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The smoking in bed is one scenario where a sprinkler would not save your life due to smoke inhalation. The no multi fatality with sprinklers is accurate but the wording is when a system has been properly maintained and installed.
Why is there no single sprinkler head easy install kit for existing homes where they could be easily attached to an existing water source in a basement area where pipes are usual very accessible and where many fires start. and could well serve to suppress a fire. At one time a saw a small garden hose kit with single head you attached to back of washer and then hanged on ceiling. Want to know why its the same asses who make the rules UL etc who put so many restrictions on technology no one wants to make one unless its approved by some group to help limit law suits.
UL, ICC and NFPA are not your friend when you realize all the goings on in the background.
just like Arc fault breakers why make them unless you can get some agency to mandate them because most people given the chance would not use them making the cost high.
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In your prior post you simply said "there has been no multiple fire fatality". You did not say "there has been no multiple fire fatality when sprinklers where installed" which I'm now thinking it what you meant?
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Once it became a blaze though, it could save others if the smoke has not already gotten to them. Smoke detectors are far more important than sprinklers to warn people.

Some 20 years ago I saw a water valve that replaced the one on the feed line to your boiler. In the case of a fire from the boiler, it would activate as a sprinkler. The idea was that many fires start at residential heaters so this would take care of one common source. I never saw it in production though.
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