Auto Brake question

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On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 07:24:01 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

EVENTUALLY both the rings and pads may seat and do their job, but both will have reduced life and reduced effectiveness.
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On Jan 17, 2:27 pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Correct.
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wrote:

that will last the life of a set of decent pads without requiring machining or replacement.
Happens once in a while, but it is definitely the exception rather than the rule.
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yeah,that's what I did the last time,on my Sentra SpecV. I also had to replace the left front caliper bracket and slide pins because the pins had rusted into the bracket,causing uneven wear on the pads. I had less than 1/16" pad material left on the outer pad,very lucky the rotor wasn't scored. the inner pad was nearly new.
I tell ya,the Internet is fantastic for parts shopping; it's saved me SO much money over buying local,even after paying shipping.
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Jim Yanik
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On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 09:09:36 -0800, Smitty Two

Used to be I could do that too - but the rotors on the mystique were bad - all 4 of them, at less than 120,000km. The rotors on the PT were bad at 115,000km. The rotors on the TransSport were bad every 70,000 kms, and before I caught on to the carbon metallic pads, the Aerostar needed rotors every 2 years ( pads were still about half lining, but hard as glass and had "eaten" the rotors). With the carbon metallic pads I got 3 years out of them (both pads and rotors) and they still looked like new when I sold it.
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writes:
| As for machining vs replacing? On today's cars, with rotors often | available for less than $40 and machining costing 30+, why would you | EVER machine the rotor??
About 25 years ago I had a Honda Accord which I took to a Honda Barn for service. They frequently machined the rotors. What did I know? It was my first car. Eventually on one service I got a sad call that my rotors were too thin to machine and would have to be replaced. The cost to replace was just slightly _less_ than the cost to remove/machine/install. Maybe this is related to high labor charges at dealer shops, but since then I've always insisted on replacement.
                Dan Lanciani                 ddl@danlan.*com
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On 17 Jan 2010 00:09:49 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:

the hub and the front bearings needed to be pressed apart, it was a different story. We invested in an "on car" brake lathe to skim the rotors on Toyota Tercels because to remove them was a roughly 2 hour job and involved replacing seals and a "crush spacer". The oncar lathe could do the job in less than 15 minutes. Honda had a similar setup, and because they were replaced so often the "economy of scale" allowed the parts prices to drop to the point that if you were taking them apart anyway it just did not make ANY sense to machine the old rotors.
The same has transpired with generally all makes now - with the generally underbraked cars today, and the ecology limitations on brake pad material, rotors have become "consumables" and the price reflects that reality (in most cases)
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RBM wrote:

It really depends on the vehicle. Back in the day you could run two or three sets of pads on one pair of rotors, with a cleanup on a brake lathe at each pad change. Newer vehicles tend to not have as much meat on the rotors and sometimes they'll be worn enough after one set of pads that turning them would bring them at or close to the replacement spec.
I am real disappointed with the brakes on the newer GM products. Had to have the rotors turned at less than 30K miles due to a bad pulsation. Previous company car wore out the brakes completely at less than 50K miles. "they don't make 'em like they used to" indeed. The benefit to going light on the brakes is less unsprung weight, (theoretically) better handling, better fuel economy.
nate
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Yeah,at YOUR expense....

there's a minimum thickness spec stamped on the rotor hub. you need a micrometer to measure it.
IMO,unless you had a pad's backing plate grind into your rotor or it's grooved,you don't need to replace them,nor turn them,unless the car has a LOT of mileage on it.(modern pads don't use rivets) In fact,turning them may make them more prone to warping,and then you need new rotors.
BTW,it's pretty easy to replace brake disc pads yourself,especially on the fronts,which wear faster. The rear caliper piston may have to be -turned- (screwed) back in rather then simply pressed in like the front caliper pistons.
Mechanics probably replace rotors because it's easier than measuring,turning,and then maybe having them warp and you back for warranty repair.Of course,they make profit on parts sales,too.
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I'm with Jim and the other guys who say replacing rotors or turning them everytime pads are replaced isn't necessary. I'm surprised no one here has mentioned RTFM. The service manual from the auto manufacturer that is. I've been doing the brakes on my Mercedes myself for years and it now has 135K miles. I've never touched the rotors unless necessary and that has only been when they were worn down close to min spec. What does the MB shop manual say? That the rotors should be checked for thickness and run-out As long as they are within spec and look OK, nothing needs to be done.
Some folks claim that rotors routinely get "glazed" and the new pads won't work unless that is corrected, If the rotors got glazed, the old pads wouldn't be stopping the car either. I've just replaced pads many times and never had an issue with any braking problem. Rotors in normal usage just have a smooth shiny finish to them from metal being worn off.
Other thoughts. In many cases, if the rotors could be re-used by turning them, it's not worth it. With today's labor rates, for the same price as turning them or just $20 more, you can get new ones. Shops likely tell people they have to be changed for 2 reasons:
1 - It's more money in their pocket
2 - It somewhat reduces the risk to them because with everything new, there is a little less chance that the car will come back with a problem. That's especially true where they have some employees working that don't even know what a micrometer is.
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I have faith in the mechanic shop that services my Sprinter, which I use in my electrical service. It's been years since I've done any real auto mechanics, so as I recalled, you would just turn the rotors when doing a brake job. I suspected the rotors probably weren't made like they used to be, and I would certainly rather put money into new ones, than weakening old ones, especially considering the weight I carry.
Thanks, Roy
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My mechanic says that is necessary, for the warranty. The guys who make brake pads want the rotors replaced, too. Made sense, to me.
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On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:43:30 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

Now, if you are replacing the pads yourself, there is no warranty anyways (read the fine print) so if the rotors are not grooved or corroded and you just want brakes, you CAN get away without replacing the rotors. Up here in "salt country" that doesn't happen too aften any more, because the rotors are usually pretty scaly before the pads get beyond half wear. The new hybrid ceramic pads are showing some promise in reducing the rotor corrosion - might actually get full pad life out of both the pads and rotors - but for pretty close to two hundred bux a set I sure hope so.
I have also got a set of "kevlar" aramid fiber (motorsport) pads on the one vehicle to see how they work out. Hard as hen's teeth to find around here, and they are "pretty proud of them" too, judging from the price. I've got the Kevlars on the Mysique and the Hybrids on the PT Cruiser When I had the Aerostar the only brakes that stopped it reliably and quietly without eating rotors were the "carbon metallic" pads. On the Pontiac TransSport it didn't matter what you put on for brakes because you were going to be taking it apart for wheel bearings or ball joints at least once a year anyway so the labour was already covered to replace the cheapest pads you could buy. What a peice of junk
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Don't replace the rotors unless absolutely needed. The objective is to replace the (cheaper) pads well before the rotors become damaged. It's a good idea to inspect the pads yearly, perhaps more often if you are driving on a lot of salted roads.
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wrote:

Not true any more. The pads for my PT cruiser cost over double what the set of replacement rotors cost. Same for my Mercury Mystique. You CAN buy pads for roughly the cost of one rotor if you are buying the cheapest available of both.
Recommendation is to service the brakes twice a year - spring and fall - to be sure the caliper sliders are not stuck, the pads are not stuck or worn, and the rotors are not corroded. Knocking off the ridge of rust from the edge of the rotors can extend the life of both pads and rotors significantly.
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RBM wrote:

Once upon a time, disc pads were made of asbestos. This is now verbotten. The new pads are harder and eat the discs. This is the reason for their replacement.
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Clot wrote:

Apologies, I should have said "Once upon a time, pads were made of asbestos. This is now verbotten. The new pads are harder and eat the rotors. This is the reason for their replacement."
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If it works, don't fix it.
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On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 20:29:45 -0600, AZ Nomad

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