ATTN: electrical wizards, ceiling fan and 3 ways......

[Steve Barker]

I'm wiring a new room and want to 3 way the ceiling fan light, but not the fan itself. Here's the text i've typed up for myself to keep things straight. Is this acceptable practice to have 2 potential hots in a cable and no common? (cable#2 in the text). What would be perfect is a 12/4, but this is probably only about 15 feet long, and i'm not even sure there is a

12/4. I've seen 12/2/2 but i believe that contains two commons. Here's the copied and pasted text...........

Ceiling fan - Existing feed switched near the kitchen door:

From Kitchen Door switches for ceiling fan:

Cable#1 White is common

Black is switched SPST for the fan

Cable#2 White is traveler marked Blue, passes through ceiling fan box to white marked blue from back door cable

Black is traveler, passes through ceiling fan box to the black wire from the back door cable.

From Back door 3 way for ceiling fan light:

White is a traveler marked Blue, passing through the ceiling fan box

Black is a traveler passing through the ceiling fan box

Red is switched load to ceiling fan light

Thanks for the input, and if you can tell me how to delete these damn double lines in word, that'd be great also.

steve barker

[Steve Barker]

sorry about the crappy formatting. and forget the question about the double lines. they didn't post here in the NG.

s

[Toller]

Run 12/2 to the two switches; the 2way for the fan and the first 3way for the light. Run 12/3 from the first 3way to the second 3way. (commons and hot) Run 12/3 to the fan/light. (2 hots and neutral)

Unless I am missing something, it is pretty straightforward.

[RBM]

just to clarify, run the three wire cable to the ceiling box from the two gang box, and with all those wires use the biggest deepest box you can get

[Steve Barker]

I read that, and drew it again. I still too dense to understand it i guess. I didn't end up with a switched wire for the fan from the first box.

s

??

Thanks guys.

[Wayne Whitney]

My understanding of the US 2002 NEC is that this is allowed for non-metallic sheath cables as long as all current-carrying conductors of a single circuit enter or leave any ferrous boxes through the same hole. See 300.3(B)(3).

My understanding of the US 2002 NEC is that a white insulated conductor in a cable can be used as an ungrounded conductor ("hot") if you reidentify with another color at every termination and point at which it is accessible. See 200.7(C)(1).

As to your layout, if I understand correctly the physical situation is as follows:

Kitchen door Ceiling fan Backdoor

2 way fan switch Light 3 way light switch 3 way light switch Incoming power here

If this is correct, you need 4 conductors (plus EGC) from the Kitchen door to the Ceiling fan (neutral, fan hot, two travelers for the light) and 3 conductors from the Ceiling fan to the Backdoor (two travelers for the light, return light hot). You can get the 4 conductors from the Kitchen door to Ceiling fan with two 12/2 cables, reidentifying the white conductor in one cable. You can get the 3 conductors from the Ceiling fan to the Backdoor with a single 12/3 cable, reidentifying the white conductor.

Cheers, Wayne

[Toller]

two travelers for the light? The light and the fan each have terminals for a hot and a neutral; where exactly are you going to attach two travelers?

[Wayne Whitney]

The OP indicated that he wishes to have two separate switches that control the light, so he'll need two 3 way switches connected by a pair of travelers.

Cheers, Wayne

[Toller]

Don't you read your own stupid post? "If this is correct, you need 4 conductors (plus EGC) from the Kitchen door to the Ceiling fan (neutral, fan hot, two travelers for the light)" Again, where are you going to connect the two travelers to the light? You don't use more than 3 conductors anywhere.

[Steve Barker]

the two travelers go to the back door 3 way switch. They merely pass through the ceiling fan box, to attach to the 12/3 going to the back door.

steve

[Steve Barker]

YES, you have the layout correct. Ok, that's what i thought. I was in fact on the right track. I had already figgered if i can find some 12/2/2 by the foot, i'll go with that from the first switch to the ceiling box.

steve

[Wayne Whitney]

As I understand the OP, at the "kitchen door", incoming power is available, and two switches are desired, one for the fan, and one

3-way for the light. The second 3-way switch for the light is to be across the room, at the "back door". So the two travelers go from the "kitchen door" 3-way switch to the "back door" 3-way switch.

Assuming the cable runs are "kitchen door" ceiling fixture "back door", I don't see anyway to achieve the functionality desired without 4 conductors from the "kitchen door" to the ceiling fixture.

Cheers, Wayne

[Steve Barker]

I guess he should have said "two travelers for the light CIRCUIT".

s

(not meaning to start a war)