AT&T DSL

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On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 00:45:07 +0000 (UTC), Jerry Peters

Yes, I do, actually. I've been a practicing hardware design engineer for 40 years. I design this stuff.

Except when it isn't. It really is crappy. Hell, RF (DSLish) can be transmitted over, even crappier, power lines.
Really, the last ten feet doesn't matter when the first five thousand isn't ideal. ...and it isn't, by a *long* shot.

I suggest you learn something. Period.
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On Friday, August 30, 2013 2:05:45 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

The whole point of DSL was that it was designed to work over the existing installed based of far from perfect phone wiring that exists not only from the phone company to the premise, but within the premise. That would allow digital service to be delivered without the huge cost of a new infrastructure or modifying the existing one. The total length of wire can be as much as 3 miles, from the phone company CO or other eqpt, through the house wiring, to the DSL modem. All of that is just plain old phone wire. What kind of data rate you can get does depend on the gauge of the wire, the number of gauge changes along the way, any bridge taps, etc. On a short line without the above imperfections, you get the highest rate. On the longest line, with many imperfections you get a lower rate, or in some cases it may not work at all.
But like KRW, I'm having a hard time trying to see how changing out the last 50 ft of traditional phone wire and replacing it with something else, suddenly results in a 3X speed improvement. If the line length went from 3 miles to 1/2 mile, I could see it. If several bridge taps or loading coils were removed, I could see it. I'm wondering if the real problem was not something loose, eg a poor connection at the ends where the 50 ft cable was being changed out, and maybe the new cable made good contact where the other one did not. It would seem to me that if DSL were that sensitive to a piece of regular 50ft phone wire, the whole thing would not work, almost everyone would be having all kinds of problems, and they could never roll it out. IMO something unusual, whatever it is, was happening here.
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On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:04:26 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

See, you just listed a possibility that could make it triple speed. Yes,it is hard to believe but we did not see the old wire and connections.
I recently had problems on my DSL line the ATT lineman made a few changes, including the line to the house. I guess you could say my speed increase 5000x since it was 0 before the repairs.
Broadbandreports.com test 5011 Kbs down, 641 up. Best I ever got.
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Loading coils? Bad connections? Sure, they can cause all sorts of problems. Bridge taps? Tens of feet long? Not going to happen. The issue is certainly *NOT* the wire gauge or twisted pair vs. untwisted phone wire.

That something was faulty; believable. That it was the wire gauge - not credible.

Well... What's the wire gauge of an open?

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On Saturday, August 31, 2013 8:09:23 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Bridge taps most certainly do effect the transmission on DSL lines. They were one of the design concerns well known from the beginning when the Telcos first started to work on developing DSL. A line without bridge taps is best. The more bridge taps, the more difficult it becomes to transmit and transmission rate typically decreases.
The

As I said, I agree that just changing that one short piece of wire, I don't see how it accounts for a 3x performance difference. But wire gauge does effect performance and wire *gauge changes* also effect performance. Let's say you had two DSL lines, both a mile long, both have a half mile of 22 gauge, half a mile of 26 gauge using same wire. But one line has an entire continuous half mile of the 22 gauge, followed by a continuous half mile of 26. The other keeps changing gauge back and forth at various intervals for a total of 20 gauge changes The latter line will have a lower DSL speed capability than the first line, because instead of 1 gauge change, it has 20 gauge changes along the way.
So, his gauge change could effect the performance, I just can't see how it could effect it by a factor of 3X.
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On Sun, 1 Sep 2013 06:21:43 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

Not tens of feet long. Until a significant fraction of a wavelength they're not an issue.

The issue was interior wiring.

Not the interior wiring.
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On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 2:32:09 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

Some of the things that effect DSL performance in addition to line length are the wire gauge, any wire gauge changes along the way and any bridge taps. When you switched to that new wire, you didn't also get rid of a bridge tap that went to another unused location in the house, did you? Any of those things can effect performance, but it's one hell of an increase and I would agree with krw that it's hard to imagine just changing that 50 ft of wire made all that difference. DSL was designed to work on typical phone wire and there can be several miles of it between your DSL modem and the CO or equivalent. If there was a poor connection, a partial short, a bridge tap that's picking up noise or connected to who knows what, and any of that got fixed at the same time, I could more easily see that making such a big difference.
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wrote:

Not terrible but you own all the hardware at your end. If anything goes wrong you'll buy a new modem. The price and speed really suck, though. If you have any alternatives, don't do DSL. Satellite is worse but not by much.
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On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 12:55:43 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote in

What I what to compare is AT&T (6.0M) DSL and possibly a Verizon 4G wireless router. I say "possibly" because I'm not sure yet if the V4G is available to me. The Verizon web site map say yes, but I need more than a map to believe Verizon.
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wrote:

My 6M DSL line is 3M on a *good* day. 4G is *MUCH* faster (though I get crappy reception at home). There is also the data cap on wireless. I never hit my 6Gig LTE limit but I certainly would if I used it for my home Internet.
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On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 12:55:43 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

I have DSL because Comcast was down several times a day. I found it so unreliable I decided slower was better than fast when it worked.
I run a server that tags the net once a minute and comcast was so bad my log file was full all the time.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I would like to add to your comment: Last winter we had an ice storm that killed power for four days. Upon the return of power, U-Verse was up in minutes. Comcast customers waited another 4-7 days.
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On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 14:02:51 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I don't find DSL to be all that reliable, either. I'm always having to cycle power on the modem and routers.
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DSL is no different. I started out at $19.95. I'm up to $49.95 for 6M DSL. It was half that at my previous house (but I was lucky to get 768K).

On DSL?!

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Same thing.

Some. The provider can't "throttle" physics.

Well, that's a few hundred megabytes, now, isn't it? ;-)

Sure, but it's all ADSL.
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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote in

Incorrect -- they own it.

Incorrect again -- anything goes wrong, they come out and replace it free of charge.

Three strikes and you're out!
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On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 21:16:51 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller

You're wrong. I have the bills to prove it.

Bullshit. I have the bills to prove otherwise. Just like the phone, they'll replace anything up to the demark box. After, tough luck. If they come out at all, they'll charge you through the nose.

You're lying, too. No surprise.
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wrote:

Depends on the provider and your contract. Earthlink through Brighthouse came out and put in a new modem a couple of years ago for me. Easy Peasy and 100% cost free.
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wrote:

The subject is AT&T. It's possible their policy is different across the country but every place I've had AT&T DSL *I* have owned the hardware (even though they sometimes made me buy theirs).
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On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 6:28:08 AM UTC-5, CRNG wrote:

lems. -- Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers a nd having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one. Email list- server groups and USENET are like having all of those newspapers delivered to your door every morning.
We have had AT&T DSL for a few years, no complaints. Every once in a while , maybe 2 times per month, we will get a message saying the connection is d own in the telco central office. But the connection has always been restor ed within a few seconds, so no problem.
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