Appliance industry warns....

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"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the plan, washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.
<http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v <https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe
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On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 5:22:57 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:

upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v>

I remember reading something about the city of San Francisco finding it nec essary to use thousands of gallons of toxic chemicals to flush their sewer systems because of the widespread adoption of water saving toilets and plum bing fixtures not putting enough water into the sewer system to flush queer poop down the line to the sewage treatment plant. The law of unintended re sults strikes La La Land again and again. O_o
[8~{} Uncle Sewer Monster
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On 7/20/2015 7:52 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:

I can believe that. Our 1.6 gpf toilets do a great job of clearing the bowl, but I always wonder about moving things down the line to the street. I double flush often, not from need,, but for safety.
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I've often wondered how much water is used by people rinsing out stuff to be recycled. Water is in short supply in many areas and the amount of water used to clean that trash must be huge.
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wrote:

Recycling is almost always an environmental loser. It is just a feel good program. Alumiinum makes sense as do most metals, simply because of the cost to refine it from ore Paper and plastic only make sense if the reprocessing plant is fairly close. Where I am, it makes a whole lot more sense to burn these in our waste to energy plant than to put it on a truck and ship it 1000 miles to the recycling plant. The stuff in there will burn too so why wash it? Unfortunately there was a news story about it and now they are trucking a token amount away, just to pacify the ill informed.
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Oren wrote:

It always gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that the feds are busy protecting me from wasteful, avaricious capitalists.
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+1
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and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
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veterans deserve much better than the services the VA provides. You been paying ANY attention to the news? (And from personal experience with the VA, I can tell you some of this runs at least from the mid-80s forward.
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but what they conceal is vital.?
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Kurt Ullman wrote:

I suspect the problems might be regional , because I've had nothing but positive experiences with my VA health care . I go in tomorrow for my annual physical , the appointment was made less than 2 weeks ago . The staff at the Mountain Home Ar. center is VERY professional , they treat the patients with respect , and the care is top notch . We also have a program now that if you're more than 40 miles from a VA facility or can't get an appointment within 30 days you can see a local provider . We're still looking for a doc we like here , but it's nice to know I don't have to get hauled a hundred miles to Little Rock if I have a hospital-type emergency . Or a cold for that matter ...
--
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Not according to anything I have seen on news reports. It is more the other way where there are pockets of goodness. Most seem to be if you live within the catchment area of a big city where most of the VA docs are also on the faculty at local medical schools. But even that often changes by specialty. Even between the cities, there are some wiht good physical plant and many without. Of course the local provider thingy sorta shows that the system has fallen to the point it can't handle what it used to on their own.
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On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:27:05 AM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:

the pittsburghVA management was notified of legionaires disease in the water system. the local head oof the VA did NOTHING, because clearing it up would of cost him his bonus.
a bunch of vets and some staff got sick and died. the jerk head still got his bonus, while what he should of got was a few years in prison...
phoenix VA and a bunch of others cooked the books, to make it appear they were doing a good job. they werent vets ied while waiting years
my dads in phoenix he said it was terrible
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<stuff snipped>

And before the VA it was going on throughout the whole world.
It's the same old story: When the war is over the veterans are forgotten. Probably no Americans in recent memory got worse treatment that the Confederate vets because the South was so impoverished after the war. I remember seeing the museum curator they often have on "Pawn Stars" talking about how to tell a Confederate wooden leg from the much more elaborate prosthetics used for Northern vets.
I also seem to remember something about the same being true in ancient Europe. It's easy to forget how much the soldiers sacrificed once the war is over. No one had it tougher than these vets:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kleidion
<<Skylitzes records that Basil completely routed the Bulgarian army and took 15,000 prisoners (14,000 according to Kekaumenos). Modern historians however, such as Vasil Zlatarski, claim that these numbers are exaggerated. The 14th century Bulgarian translation of the Manasses Chronicle numbers the prisoners at 8,000. Basil divided the prisoners into groups of 100 men, blinded 99 men in each group and left one man in each with one eye so that he could lead the others home - this was done in retaliation for the death of Botaneiates, who was Basil's favourite general and advisor, and also to crush the Bulgarian morale. Another possible reason was that, in Byzantine eyes, the Bulgarians were rebels against their authority, and blinding was the usual punishment meted out to rebels. For this action, Basil gained the nickname Boulgaroktonos (Greek: ??????????????), "the Bulgar-slayer". Samuel died of a heart attack on October 6, 1014, reportedly due to seeing his soldiers blinded.>>
While the wikipedia article doesn't mention it, the soldiers fared very poorly when they returned home. Even VA care at its worst would have looked good to them.
--
Bobby G.



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Robert Green posted for all of us...

The winner gets to write history...
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Tekkie *Please post a follow-up*

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Per Ashton Crusher:

In all the discussions, press releases, documentaries, and other stuff I have seen/heard/read nobody has addressed the difference in water supplies.
If Person A is getting their water from some aquifer that was layed down a bazillion years ago, is not getting replenished, and is slowly being drained by use... that's one thing, and maybe conservation measures above-and-beyond pricing could be appropriate.
But if Person B is getting their water from a major river running through an urban area - like the Delaware River feeds Philadelphia - who cares how much water they use? Worst-case, "wasting" water could be construed as wasting energy in that the purification plants have to work more.... best case, "wasting" water could be construed as helping out with cleaning up a dirty river.
This is from somebody unencumbered by any real knowledge... maybe somebody who knows can comment.
--
Pete Cresswell

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<stuff snipped>

We put a man on the moon and built an A-bomb but this "clean dishes with less water" thing has us flummoxed. At least according the appliance manufacturers interviewed for that Fox report.
--
Bobby G.



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Ppl prolly recall the "reduced flow" toities, the one's that require 2-3 flushes to actually dispose of load, while simultaneously spraying fecal/whiz water all overthe bathroom. Or maybe those "stink pot" front loader water-saving washers. The one's that leave old rinse water in the drum. Boy, that's what I want! A water-saving dish washer that uses more water than claimed and/or saves the old wash water. Ya' sure ...you betchya!

Ooh, Fox! That's where I go for accurate news reporting. (not) ;)
nb
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Robert Green wrote: ...

blow the crud off the plates with compressed air before loading the dishwasher.
songbird
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And have a kitchen wall covered with atomized linguini? (0-: I once tried to clear an old, dirty condensate line in a refrigerator and blew a huge sneeze of dirty black water out of the bottom of the unit and onto the floor and wall.
--
Bobby G.



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On 7/21/15 9:17 PM, Robert Green wrote:

Grease is a problem washing dishes. The more of it you need to emulsify, the more detergent you need. After wiping the greasy stove top, washing the grease out of the dish cloth was a hassle. Besides, grease seemed to be a big reason I often had to use a plunger to get my kitchen drain up to speed.
I finally got smart and began running to the bathroom for toilet paper. If I first removed most of the grease from the stove with toilet paper, the dish cloth was easy to clean.
A paper towel costs 150 times more than a sheet of toilet paper. It's harder to rip off the roll with one hand, and paper towels fill a waste basket in a hurry.
Washing something under the faucet can be more convenient than using a dishwasher, but dishwashing detergent makes it less convenient and wastes water. You have to distribute the detergent with a wet cloth, and then it's hard to rinse. If you don't get it all off, you may suffer intestinal distress.
The 20 Mule Team company recommends Boraxo instead of dishwashing detergent. They recommend 2 tablespoons in a quart of hot water (It dissolves well at 130 F and above.). They recommend letting it cool and pouring it into an empty detergent bottle.
Instead, I put it in a 1-quart Solo sprayer. It holds pressure indefinitely and sits with the nozzle over the sink. If my hands are messy, it's easy to press the paddle trigger with the side of my hand. The nozzle spreads the solution as a mist.
The clarity of glasses and squeakiness of plates persuaded me that for most items, it's easier and more effective than detergent. It rinses so much better than detergent that I don't even wait for hot water to come from the faucet. It also keeps my dish cloth from smelling. Microbes hate it, but for humans it's about as toxic as table salt.
The shortcoming is that it won't emulsify much grease. If I've been eating fried chicken, I may have to spray and rinse my fingers several times. I added a teaspoon of detergent per quart of solution. Even that little bit of detergent made it harder to rinse off. So when an item has lots of grease, like my greasy fingers, I'll wipe with toilet paper, then wash with a borax spray.
I'm going to find me a pecan stick so I can use a couple of pieces of wire to hang a toilet paper roll. Then I'll have a state-of-the-art toilet-paper-and-borax kitchen.
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<stuff snipped>

I mounted a toilet paper roll inside a kitchen cabinet door for the same reason: Keeping as much grease as possible from going into the drain. Cheaper than paper towels, that's for sure.
--
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