Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?

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philo: "MOV"?
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On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 8:55:38 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Metal Oxide Varistor
Which doesn't diminish what it's purpose is and it's effectiveness.
But a new washing machine isn't the only electronics in the house. Like Gfre says, best strategy is a whole house surge protector at the panel or meter, with point-of-use type at eqpt that is also connected to other lines, eg cable, phone, etc. If you're in a situation where you can't put one on the panel, then point-of-use at the washer can offer protection, but it's not the preferred solution.
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On 05/19/2016 07:55 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

http://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why-and-when-you-need-to-replace-your-surge-protector/
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On 5/19/2016 2:19 PM, philo wrote:

Few years ago I had several surge protectors get fried by a voltage surge when a tree fell dropping the high tension wire on the low one. Only item I lost was a microwave without a surge protector. Many years ago we had lost a couple of unprotected TV sets now all electron stuff in my house is protected. Also have usb's on all computers.
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UPS's??
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Is the computer owned by the UPS?
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On 5/19/2016 3:40 PM, Frank wrote:

Some have DisplayPort, some have hdmi and all of mine have USB.
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On 5/19/2016 6:50 PM, Will wrote:

Top or front loading? And do you use surge supressors?
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On 05/19/2016 04:55 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Most ports are front and rear. Never really seen a port on top though I suppose it's possible.
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On 5/20/2016 4:35 AM, Megan wrote:

Does it use a surge supressor? Do you need the new high efficiency detergent?
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On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 7:02:38 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

How does it do stain protection?
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Stormy's just being a smart-ass again because the subject is washing machines and someone DARED mention computers.
Well, the REAL subject is surge protectors - so we are covered
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On 5/19/2016 1:40 PM, Frank wrote:

A surge expert at the NISThas written "in fact, the major cause of [surge protector] failures is a temporary overvoltage, rather than an unusually large surge." An example of overvoltage is crossed power wires (as above). While MOVs can handle thousands of surge amps for the maybe hundred microsecond duration of a surge they are rapidly burned out by much longer lasting "overvoltage".
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I've seen surge protectors (plug in ones) melt in an office. The computers without one popped their PSU's bulk caps. The cause of this? Some workmen doing re-wiring confused the old UK with the new EU wiring colours and put two phases across a one phase outlet circuit. A large insurance claim was made, then I replaced all the bulk capacitors at 50p each :-)
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On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 2:19:46 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:

Oh boy, W Tom will have a field day with that one and rightly so.
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Uncle Monster posted for all of us...

Are repairs surging?
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On 5/19/2016 12:19 PM, philo wrote:

Pretty much internet garbage.
For instance (contrary to the link) if a MOV with a 1000J rating is hit with 1000 - 1J hits, the cumulative rating is far greater than 1000J. Look up a data sheet.
And the amount of energy that can make it to a plug-in protector over a branch circuit is surprisingly low. A surge expert at the NIST investigated how much energy can reach the MOVs. Branch circuits were 10m and longer, and surges coming in on power wires were up to 10,000A. The maximum energy was a surprisingly small 35 joules. In 13 of 15 cases it was 1 joule or less. Plug-in protectors with much higher ratings are readily available. (There are a couple reasons the energy is so low, if anyone is interested.)
(The surge of 10,000A is, for practical purposes, the maximum surge exposure for a house. It is the result of a 100,000A lightning strike (only 5% are stronger) to an adjacent utility pole in typical urban overhead distribution.)
And the IEEE surge guide (link in trader's post) describes how the protected load can be connected to the incoming power, or connected across the MOVs. In the latter case, if the MOVs fail the protected equipment is disconnected. I believe protectors made now are required to state if the protected load is not disconnected.
Some manufacturers have protected equipment warranties. They are possible because the risk is much more limited than we expect (as explained above).
I don't expect any of my plug-in protectors, which have good ratings, to fail.
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There is all kinds of "surge protection" including line to neutral and line to ground shunting, as well as reactive chokes
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On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 6:03:02 AM UTC-4, philo wrote:


And where does it shunt those spike to? If not connected low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to single point earth ground, then it must shunt those spikes elsewhere - such as destructively through adjacent electronics.
Protection is always about where energy dissipates. If a protector is adja cent to an appliance, it can only protect by 'blocking' or 'absorbing' that energy. How does its 2 cm part 'block' what three kilometers of sky could not? It doesn't. How does its hundreds of joules absorb surges that can be hundreds of thousands of joules? It doesn't. And does not have to. A surge too tiny to destroy appliances can also destroy near zero plug-in pro tectors. Then the naive consumer uses wild speculation to assume, "My prot ector sacrificed itself to save my computer."
More robust protection already inside appliances protect those appliances. Near zero joule protectors fail to even promote more sales.
A properly earthed 'whole house' protector does not 'block' or 'absorb' any thing. It connects hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly to what does all protection - single point earth ground. Then even near zero plug-in p rotectors are protected. Then near zero plug-in protectors can protect fro m other and tinier anomalies.
Plug-in protectors are only useful if used in conjunction with properly ear thed 'whole house' protection. Protection is always about where hundreds o f thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed. Any solution that does not discuss that energy is best considered a scam.
MOVs are effective when connected low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to w hat actually does protection - single point earth ground.
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On 5/20/2016 11:01 AM, westom wrote:

Of course it doesn't Protectors do not work by "blocking" or "absorbing" a surge. (But both service panel and plug-in protectors do absorb some energy in the process of protecting.)

Of course not. Protectors do not work by "absorbing".
And as has been pointed out many times, in an expert investigation the maximum energy that can make it to a plug-in protector is quite small - 35 joules and usually far less even with the worst probable surge on power service wires.
But it is all too complicated for westom's simple minded beliefs.

And his stupid idea that appliances have intrinsic protection higher than a plug-in protector If they did, the manufacturer would list them under the UL standard for surge protection - an advertizing advantage.

The maximum energy that can make it to a plug-in protector is quite small - 35 joules, and usually far less, even with the worst probable surge on power service wires. And no service panel protector.

It is westom's religiious belief in earthing.
Unfortunately the IEEE surge guide (starting page 30) explains that plug-in protectors do not work primarily by earthing. But since that conflicts with westom's religious belief he ignores it.
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